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Why Pistol Caliber Carbines Have a Place


– [Narrator] Pistol
caliber carbines tend to be a pretty divisive category of firearms. You have their proponents who
advocate their proliferation for a number of reasons which
I’ll get in to in a minute. But on the other side of the fence, you have the people who
denounce their existence, declaring that their, insert
semi-automatic rifle here, is superior in every respect. While a rifle is generally a better choice for a combat scenario, pistol caliber carbines fill
many niches outside of a clash. Historically, pistol caliber carbines like the Luger and C96 carbines were issued to artillery crewmen. We call the longer Pistole 08 the artillery Luger for a reason. And one of these equipped
with a stock and a snail drum, offered a whole lot of
lead slinging capability in a compact package should the enemy overrun their position. Remembering that when this
was doctrinally relevant, the submachine gun
hadn’t been invented yet. When the German MP 18 quite literally stormed on to the scene followed by the American Thompson, and a slew of other
first-generation submachine guns. People began to realize
the benefit of a small, rapid fire gun holding 30 or more rounds over a long, slow, albeit
exponentially more powerful rifle. Pistol caliber long guns would remain a military and police staple from the 19 teens until, well now really. And while their use is subsiding, they still remain in
inventory around the world for a myriad of reasons. The advantages of a modern
long gun over a hand gun are increased velocity, capacity, and above all accuracy. Peep sights, a long sight radius, and a shoulder stock all work in tandem to turn the same round in your pistol in to a much more accurately
dispensed projectile. As a bonus, said long gun may also utilize the same magazine as your pistol, which makes it easy to grab
mags from the same pouch. As a patrol firearm that is
more substantial than a sidearm this makes quite a lot of sense. Having a standard ammunition type for your primary and
secondary is a huge bonus. But that probably isn’t
enough to offset the benefit of a rifle or shotgun over
a pistol caliber carbine, at least in my mind. However in a competition environment, like a 2-Gun match this is fantastic. The reason I actually bought
my Cx4 was so I could use my Beretta 92 in tandem with it. Having one magazine pouch and drawing mags from the same area for both pieces to get a better time. I certainly wasn’t the
only one doing this either. Next up, pistol caliber carbines
fire affordable ammunition. Long gun training can get expensive quick. And a 1000 round case of 9mm
can be had for less than $200. When it comes to developing
your shooting skill-set, there’s no substitute for range time. And a pistol caliber carbine can result in some pretty damn cost-effective
time out on the range. Also, pistol caliber carbines
are great for teaching new shooters to handle a long gun. Often times they are small and compact. So for a younger person
they might fit quite well. The recoil the generate is very low, and also the report is
much less significant than a rifle cracking off 5.56. Because of these factors I
put pistol caliber carbines in the hands of some
of my younger cousins, as a bridge between rimfire
rifles and center fire stuff. To the kid it brings them
a huge smile to their face, because they feel like Rambo shooting a slick looking modern 9mm long gun. And neither the recoil nor the noise level instills any kind of fear. But lastly, what about using
one as a defensive tool? I know this is where things get hazy, because most folks are going to advocate keeping a rifle, pistol
or shotgun in the home in case a person with nefarious intentions decides to invite themselves in. Well a handgun certainly
offers a lot of maneuverability that a longer firearm doesn’t. Shotgun offers a higher hit probability with a low likeliness of over-penetration. And a rifle offers a lot of power, and to many a lot of familiarity. But what about a pistol caliber long gun? Well this may sound a bit silly, and be outright dismissed
by a lot of people, but I’ve always thought that for many they may be a damn good choice. You get the capacity of a rifle, most of the maneuverability of
a handgun with a short model. And the ability to make followup shots without deafening yourself or having a muzzle flash blind you. Cracking off a rifle
in a dark enclosed area with no ear-pro generally
leaves you pretty disoriented. And while a pistol caliber long
gun isn’t quiet by any means the effect isn’t as bad. Also a pistol bullet is less likely to make its way out of your home or in to a room where
it might not be invited. Light weight and controllability
are also positives for more frail people out there too. Now I’m not saying that
pistol caliber carbines are the one true choice for home defense, but I do believe they
offer some advantages that should be considered. If you keep a shotgun and are comfortable with it, keep it up. Same goes for those who
keep a rifle or pistols for the same purpose. But the humble PCC is an
often overlooked alternative that offers many advantages. As a bonus, most aren’t
going to break the bank. Auction sites like Proxibid can net the buyer a new or gently used Scorpion Evo, Cx4, Marlin
Camp Carbine and so on, for well under $1000 and
if you decide after a while that it isn’t your thing, you can always sell it
for what you have in it. So I think that these guns
still very much have a place. New examples such as the Evo, SIG MPX and of course MP5 clones
are selling like crazy. So obviously the public is interested, and with 3-Gun Nation’s
pistol caliber carbine clash, you can now train with your gun in a safe and competitive environment. Which I personally think is great. Special thank you to Ventura Munitions for helping us out with the
ammunition in our videos, and a special thank you
to you for watching. We hope to see you next time.

100 thoughts on “Why Pistol Caliber Carbines Have a Place

  1. good vid. wish the prices would come down………i may go w the hi/point,all good reviews except take down and cleaning…

  2. Don't forget over penetration, a most rifle calibers and shotguns will go through a target and hit what ever is behind it, most pistol calibers won't over penetrate like rifles and shotguns

  3. For survivalists – Due to weight and space there is a limit to the amount of ammo you are capable of carrying. Regardless of the mission (on patrol, foraging, recon) if you carry two weapons of different caliber, you are significantly reducing the amount of ammo you are capable of carrying for BOTH weapons. Carrying a rifle or a carbine in the same caliber as your pistol maximizes the amount of ammo you can carry for both weapons. In my mind, in most situations this advantage alone outweighs the advantages of increased range, power and accuracy that carrying a rifle caliber weapon and a pistol can offer. Range, accuracy and power matter not at all when out of ammo. No such thing as too much ammo in a firefight.

  4. C-96 carbine, Artillery Luger P08, Thompson all pre intermediate cartridge for wide spread use. You can buy an AR pistol with a brace for generally cheaper and steel case .223 is cheaper than 9mm and much more affective yet less likely to over penetrate than a heavier 9mm round. Mags are cheaper, parts are everywhere, aftermarket support is better… So… Why use a pistol caliber carbine?

  5. Divisive? Only to internet dorks with too much time on ttheir hands.Now tell me obvious things that are obvious about how little kids and women can shoot pc carbines easily.

  6. I have a Kel Tec Sub 2000 set up for home defense. I love it, it is reliable( maybe the only gun from Kel Tec that is but it is), easy and fun to shoot, and also a great truck gun.

  7. common the guns youre shooting are all converted tp semi auto. they are not made for accurate shooting. just ratatatatta

  8. Hey gun friends. Wondering if you guys would take some interest in evaluating pistol carbine vs some rifles for a defense scenario, in the context of my Canadian law realities. All centerfire rifle cartridges in semi auto have a limit of 5. Bolt centerfire have no limit, but our laws still get in the way sometimes (Mossberg MVP in 5.56 is made with a 10 round box mag but the Canadian versions I see are limited to 5 even though it is bolt. Why? Because the mag is AR compatible and COULD be put in an AR here.. So the mag is illegal). Trust me the weird rules get annoying. In 9mm carbine I can still shoot 10 rounds 9mm semi auto. Comparing this to a 5 round semi auto in a rifle cartridge, what would you choose? I think 9mm. 9mm is no slouch, and double the shots is huge imo.
    Btw this is not a "if you had one gun scenario". I already also have an SKS 7.62×39 (5 round), Ruger 9E 9mm and will have a 12 gauge. But adding to this….. 10 round 9mm carbine or a 5 round rifle?

  9. I would love a thompson… but not gunna pay 1K for one… any good suggestions for a good .45acp rifle/carbine?

  10. Sub guns existed because the rifle cartridges were 8 mm Mauser, 30'06, 7.62-54R and other huge rounds, and the rifles were huge heavy things that only held 5 rounds in a bolt action. We know that pistols suck at killing stuff and stopping threats. There's no good defensive use for pistol caliber carbines with the existence of intermediate cartridges that allow you to have an effective weapon in the same size package.only use I can think of is if you have a 10mm or more powerful carbine as a bear gun because of penetration. I'd still rather have an AR with a 14.5 pinned and welded

  11. honestly, if you want an effective home defense weapon, either get a Maxim9 or a supressed 5.7 or 10mm pistol. I know I'll be getting a maxim9 with plenty of subsonic ammo so I don't lose my hearing.

  12. When I was on the Swat team I had my choice of a Colt 9mm SMG or an M16. I chose the former because I shot it better. I was no stranger to M16s after 4 years as an Army Ranger. I could put 4 rounds into the head of a target in the same time it took me to get 2 in with the M16 at 50 yards.

  13. Good points. I like PCC's too. But, how about showing u s sone firearms that most people cam buy? Almost everything you showed was an SMG or SBR. In some states you can't have either, and legal SMG's are ridiculously expensive. Going through the SBR process is not feasible for many people. Here in Kalifornia, i don't have to worry about either one. I can't even get a CX4 because of the pistol grip. It's great that you mentioned the Scorpion and the Camp Carbine- how about including a pic of each. That would help the non-enthusiasts or newer shooters who watch these videos to learn. And of course, don't forget the lowly Hi-Point Carbine. The new 10mm one looks pretty good, and is affordable. Just a few suggestions.

  14. This is going to sound bizarre, especially coming from a guy who owns over a dozen guns, but I recently bought a Hipoint carbine in 9 mm. After putting about 600 rounds through it… sigh… I hate to say it, but I really like the gun. Yes it’s ugly, I did a lot of cosmetic modifications, and it still ugly, but that thing runs like a top. Might have to pick up the new 10mm.

  15. Nothing is quite as frustrating as watching Rick Grimes and company dispatching thin-sculled zombies with 357 magnum’s and heavy ass AK-47s. They need to get a truckload of Sub2000s and about 1,000,000 rounds of standard ball. They’d have the entire southeast cleared in about three weeks.

  16. I recently built my first 9mm, AR-15 pistol in. With its 8" barrel and SBM4 brace in place of a stock, it's compact (enough to fit in a tennis racquet case), it performs excellent, and It allows me the opportunity to avoid paying the alphabet police for a tax stamp for which I want absolutely nothing to do with. I enjoy my 223/556 of the same platform, but there's something about that 9mm. I love it, and would recommend adding it to anyone's person defense weapon options. Good video.

  17. I've seen ballistic tests which showed 9mm luger penetrate more drywall (with spacing in between each sheet) than .223.
    What are you thoughts on this? Did you do additional research for your findings based on the ballistics of rifle rounds compared to handgun calibers?

  18. i'd say SMG weapon types have their own rights like comparing a larger calibre bullet has a greater chance to overpenetrate compared to a smaller calibre bullet has a medium to small chance to overpenetrate so with that pistol calibre weapons are good for close combat while rifle calibres are for medium to long ranges

  19. I think they are ideal for home defense. being able to meneuver in confined space can be a very hard thing, with a long barreled weapon, such a shotgun (most used kind of weapon for such purpuse), and there isn't the risk of "overpenetration", like with a SBR. They are light, compact, quick to use (you don't have to pump it), and versatile. You can fire with pin-point accuracy up to 150 yards (in case you need). Also, the longer barrel can make a handgun cartridge nearly as powerful as a rifle round. A 10 inch barrel carbine in 9x19mm (+p+ ammo) can be as powerful as a 357 SIG round with the same weigh. In such scenario, you can even fire from the hip, (once you are carrying 30+ rounds) in rapid fire.

  20. Myself, I would have used a pistol caliber ar. Since there are many conversion kits out there, such as cmmg with their .22 conversion kit, or Smith and Wesson's m&p 15 22. now, of course I would not use a .22 for a home defense situation. I would go for a 9mm ar pistol, or maybe even a .45 caliber Ar pistol since CMMG already made their AR chambered in .45. and it is classified as a pistol, so, that means, you can make the barrel smaller that 16 inches.

    Naw, I am messing with you all, Mossberg Shockwave for da win!

  21. If they all were chambered spit balls They’d still have a place because they’re all so beautiful

  22. If they all were chambered spit balls They’d still have a place because they’re all so beautiful

  23. A pistol-caliber carbine with frangible ammo is a good choice. My personal choice is my 9 mm AR, loaded with Glaser ammo.

  24. Alot of misinformation here. Pistol rounds go through houses more than 5.56 does, shotguns at ranges inside the home are essentially a slug that WILL go through the house. PCCs have the same problem as a pistol just with a higher kinetic energy. All in all a 55gr XM193 is probably the best choice for the home. It fragments and destabilizes when it hits flesh and dumps quite a bit of its energy after the first wall.

  25. You missed the biggest perk they have!
    At subsonic speeds for use with a suppressor, they retain a much larger amount of energy than, say, 5.56.

  26. PCC’s are great for being a lightweight option if you carry say, heavy munitions like grenades and rockets, or if your doing CQB and want something light and pointable, or don’t want to risk over-penetration.

  27. I think if the Nazis and the British thought highly enough of the 9mm to incorporate it into their military on a large scale, that should tell everyone that it and other pistol caliber carbines have a lot of merit.

  28. 9mm can be used in indoor ranges, is dirt cheap, and can easily stop someone within 50 yards.

    I’d grab a buck shot 12ga before anything else though for home defense.

  29. Love reacts for PCC. I don't live in a free state, and a while back i was looking into getting some variant of the kriss vector. The biggest gun shop in the area was super apprehensive when i said i was looking for a PCC, and one of the older gentlemen behind the counter asked why i wanted one and actually got angry at me when i explained the points made in this video, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees things this way.

  30. Can we all just agree that people prefer certain firearms and we shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss people’s choices

  31. Sounds like lowering your competition time is the only purpose for a pcc you could think of. Does the israeli military still use the uzi? If so, maybe they should switch.

  32. My favorite pistol caliber is 9mm considering my main intent is target shooting. Out of the 14 pistols I've owned my favorite was the glock 19. I wanted to hate it, but it works and shoots well. I want the same in a rifle, with glock mags, 9mm. Can't justify using 30-06 for paper targets. I don't hunt

  33. Not everyone has to worry with over penetration some people can even not think about it at all and I'm one of those thank God.

  34. “Might make its way into a room where it’s not invited” as opposed to all the rooms in my home that invite 5.56 in of the street, those ammo sluts.

  35. Now what the hell is the difference between a machine pistol aka submachinegun, and a "pistol caliber carbine" ? If a carbine is a short version of a rilfe, how can anything be called "pistol caliber carbine" if it uses pistol ammo and as such qualifies as an smg/mp and nothing else?

  36. A couple other reasons for using pcc's for home defense, or I should say the cx4 or sub 2k specifically, is because one: they are light weight and the weight of the magazine is in the grip, so one handed manipulation is easy if you're using the support hand to open doors or shield family members. Also, reloading in the dark (which is rare but possible) is easier because your hands can intex on each other. And lastly because of the magazine position, it allows the overall length to be 4-6" shorter than most rifles.

    Even for survival they make sense, being lighter themselves, the ammunition is lighter and more compact, magazines are lighter and more compact, pistol ammunition of most types are more prolific than rifle ammo (sorry ar and ak guys but wayyy more people only own handguns) and they are usually extremely simple and in the case of the cx4 nearly corrosion proof.

  37. I live in Communist Controlled SoCal and my main Home Defense firearm is my (Unspeakable ) Hi-Point 995TS-CA, followed by a Mossberg 500 loaded with melted crayon/7.5 birdshot slugs and my CZ 75 P01 if the need actually arises.
    I have hearing protection for me and my wife hanging next to my HD firearms. My reason for choosing the Hi-Point first is that I won't be busting my wife's or my eardrums, it is a totally reliable firearm, and it is easy to aim and fire under stress and all of those issues are very important to me.
    FYI: Not one FTF or FTE with my Hi-Point PCC after over 1,500 rounds, and that is very important in a Home Defense firearm.
    When you can get a new 995TS for usually less than $330, why wouldn't you choose it over a $1000 PCC that does the same thing and is no more reliable. Also living in SoCal we are limited to 10 round magazines, so the available extra capacity is a waste and RedBall makes 20 round Magazines for those who reside in Free States. Hi-Point has provided me with A+ exceptional Customer Service every time I called and shipped me a "mag release kit" to replace the reviled "bullet button" free of charge, as well as on another occasion a spring kit and firing pin to keep on hand if ever required in the future, also free of charge.

  38. if you live in a state like Delaware or Maryland I would say a 9mm carbine w/ 9mm pistol, an a 12 gauge pump are what you should aim to get. Being a Delaware native and a prepper I can tell you that the higher caliber rounds are a bad, bad idea here. We have tons of flat land and lots of suburbs. The last thing we want to do is have those rounds penetration through several walls or traveling really far to hit someone we are not intending to take out during a time of great stress when our lives are on the line. A 9mm carbine could even be pushing it because most of us are using 115 and 124 gr fmjs in those because we get our 9mm in bulk.

    ANYWAYS I do worry about a time where we will have a WROL situation. It might only be for a short time, inside of 3 weeks. It could be a hell of a lot longer too. I opt for bugging in. Try to keep a 90-120 day supply of food and water available at all times. We Delawareans are a shotgun only hunting state unless you go to the south boarder. I would use this as a common sense rule for what firearms to choose for defense of your home and family. Can't speak for other states just our's. Good luck and God bless you, our Constitution, and our nation!

  39. I have to agree with most of the statements made in this video. I don’t see to many advantages of owning a Rifle length pistol caliber carbine.

    To me the real advantage of a PCC is the compact size offered by short barreled pistol variants with a stock or brace.

    Most people think they are under powered and not good for combat. But dudes have been killing dudes for decades with Sub machine guns for decades. A 9mm in 2018 will kill you just as dead as it would have in 1918.

  40. 2:29 – Wait. So, on this gun, pulling the trigger releases the bolt? Doesn't that result in some lag time before the shot is fired? And leaving the bolt open like that, isn't that an invitation to a FTF problem if anything gets in there before you pull the trigger? What is this gun?

  41. 4:52 – Can you really consider the P90 with 5.57 a PCC? It's ballistics are far closer to .223 than they are to 9mm.

  42. Sounds good. I've got a Sub 2000 in .40 cal. Work's like a pro. I like to keep the variety of ammo I have in the house to a couple of types to not break the budget each week.

  43. So when talking about new shooters especially for using in a defensive role at home or out, a pistol is still a much better choice. Clearing a house or moving inside a car with a longer gun is not something I would recommend for someone unless they were willing to train frequently. I have no issues with pistol caliber carbines for plinking or as you mentioned competition. However, for defensive use by a moderately trained individual the use of a pistol caliber carbine is not, in my opinion, a better option than a rifle caliber pistol! That is assuming that we are talking about a 5.56 (from an 11.5" or larger barrel) or a 300 Blackout (from a 7" or larger barrel). The ballistics of a 5.56 or the 300 blackout is going to be far more devastating on an attacker that a pistol caliber carbine will ever be. Certainly, if you have a full auto sub gun(pistol or rifle caliber) laying down suppressive fire is far easier with a pistol caliber carbine, but for most of us that will hopefully never be a requirement. If I had a choice between a pistol, a pistol caliber carbine, a rifle caliber pistol or a rifle to defend myself, I would look for the most power in the smallest effective package and the rifle caliber pistol would most of the time be the solution of choice and the pistol caliber carbine would rarely be what I would grab for.

  44. A lot of the pemetration tests I've seen seem to indicate that all will go through several layers of drywall. I could see using the carbine simply because it's cheaper and you can probably get back on target (s) faster because of the low recoil, especially in cases of a smaller person like my wife (has a plate kn her arm) or someone with a disability.

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