Articles, Blog

When Guns, Race and Activism Intersect, Things Get Complicated – Klepper Podcast


(grinding electric guitar)
– What did you think when you saw him coming up with it? – Oh, well he was telling us that it wasn’t loaded, so that was okay. – I think he says it
is, is the gun loaded? – [Woman] No, he said it wa– – No, my gun’s got ammo in it. We carry it like the police carry it. – But you’re not the police. – [Woman] But you’re not, yeah. – Well, that’s just it, there’s really no distinction between the police and the citizenship other than their general training and permits to do so. – [Jordan] Training, though, is one thing. Why keep it loaded right now? – Because if somebody,
an Islamic terrorist, whatnot, crazy guy– – [Jordan] Islamic terrorist? What’s your expectation? Do you fear that’s gonna happen right now? – No. – Just cause you’re walking around with a gun on your side
don’t make me safe. It just doesn’t look right, in society. – And to be fair, you’re passing this out because you want more rights because you feel you’re not– – [Man With Gun] I want a
greater restoration of rights. – So you don’t have enough? You’re walking around a parade route like John Wick and you
feel like, “I want more.” – That is me, Jordan Klepper, at a parade in Gonzalez, Texas. I am facilitating a conversation between a concerned parade-goer and an open carry gun rights activist. They were carrying their
guns, out in the open, they were big guns, and
they were advocating for the idea of constitutional carry. And across the state
in Dallas was my friend Kobi Libii, and he was with a group called Guerrilla Mainframe,
and they are a group of black activists who
are drawing attention to the cause of police violence towards the African-American community. We decided to go out on this day to see how people reacted to both of these groups, to see if race played into this at all. Spoiler alert, it does. It’s a really interesting episode for us, and I’m inviting my friend Kobi Libii on to talk about it. We both had different experiences but we were making one show, and we saw some of these things from
different perspectives, it wasn’t always easy. One state, two protests and a conversation around guns and racism in America. This is Klepper. (lighthearted guitar music) – I’m always to get
rid of the shock factor of seeing a gun. I think people have been conditioned “Oh gosh, there’s a guy with a gun, “I’m gonna call 911.” – That’s a good condition. – Well, is it? When I see somebody going to church I don’t call the police
to say “Hey, they’re “exercising their First Amendment rights.” – Yeah, well, people aren’t getting killed with churches all around the country. – Some people are getting
killed in churches. – Yeah, with guns! C.J. is the founder of Open Carry Texas, a group that wants to normalize the sight of people
carrying guns into Chipotle and loosen Texas gun laws. They’ve been effective, in 2016 OCT successfully lobbied the state to legalized licensed
open carry of handguns. – [C.J.] Are we done? – [All] No! – [Jordan] And today C.J. and 30 of his OCT buddies are headed to a parade in Gonzalez, Texas to spread the word. Because this is Texas,
where the state bird is a revolver, OCT isn’t even the only activist group open carrying today. 250 miles north a second,
totally unrelated group is using guns to draw
attention to their cause. My friend Kobi Libii
is embedding with them. – So I know I’m meeting this group called Guerrilla Mainframe, I know that they’re a group of black activists and that they open carry to protest police brutality, and I
know that we’re in the South which has never had a problem with black guys with guns. – I think you’re gonna be totally fine, I wouldn’t worry at all. – Okay, you have the confidence that only a white man
with security can have. (metal rubbing) – So I am here with Mr. Kobi Libii, who is both performer
and writer on Klepper. What is Guerrilla Mainframe? – So Guerrilla Mainframe is a group of black activists based it Texas, and they do a bunch of things, they do a bunch of community programs, in their sort of working
class black community in Dallas, but the thing
their most known for are these sort of brash, confrontational, militant open carry protests
against police brutality. So, if you don’t know
what some of those phrases mean, they take big, conspicuous guns out in public and protest
the unjust killing of black people by police. And so, there’s sort of a
militant aesthetic to it, so it’s a lot of, picture
the Black Panthers, picture military fatigues and black gloves and, you know, sort of
loud, very sort of direct (electric guitar music) confrontational chanting, that’s sort of their style of protest. – Whose streets?
– [Group] Our streets! – I think this might be them. (military drum march) Okay, you got a second now? – Yeah, yeah, this is time
– All right, awesome. Those aren’t loaded, right? – Huh? – Those aren’t loaded. – No, they are loaded. – Oh, okay, yeah. – Yes, they’re loaded, rocked and ready. – Great.
(cymbal roll) – What, specifically, were
they protesting that day? – So, specifically they were protesting the death of a gentleman named Botham Jean who was shot to death in his own home by an off-duty police officer. So, a woman named Amber Guyger is an off-duty police officer, lived in the same building as Botham Jean and went into Botham Jean’s apartment, and her story is that she believed it was her own apartment. She walked into Botham Jean’s apartment, saw a man there, that she believed to be a burglar, and
shot him with her weapon, and he died. – It’s an absolutely insane story. – It’s an insane story, yes. So she’s white and an
off-duty police officer, he’s a black man in
line with a lot of other unjust killings of unarmed black people, this was a particularly
egregious one because a dude’s just sitting on
his own couch, you know. So this was protest about her prosecution and what she was charged with, and what she wasn’t charged with, and more broadly raising awareness about that killing and this sort of epidemic (grinding electric guitar) of unjust killings of people
of color by the police. (cymbal roll) – The reason Rakim, who’s the leader of Guerrilla Mainframe
ended up in, as a figure in the national news at all was because he was detained for a number of months as a result of him being investigated under what’s called the
Black Identity Extremist designation, which is a very shadowy, new designation that the FBI created to monitor quote-unquote
“Black Identity Extremists” which is a nebulously defined, possibly nonexistent thing that gives the FBI a mandate to follow black activists that they are concerned
about for whatever reason. And that’s distressing to a lot of people that care about, you know, civil rights, because of COINTELPRO,
there’s a long history of the FBI doing very troubling monitoring of black activists. You know, the FBI famously monitored Martin Luther King, allegedly sent him and a number of other activists letters trying to get
them to stop their work, encouraging them to kill themselves, you know, there’s a very troubling history of law enforcement, and
the FBI specifically monitoring black activists and trying to make bad things happen
to black activists. Right, so that’s the sort
of historical backdrop of this. And then in 2017 we see
Black Identity Extremist program pop the scene, we can’t really get much context on it, there’s no, for example there’s no equivalent White Identity Extremist program to cover the white supremacists, and, you know, the antisemitic violence,
there’s no equivalent program to look at that kind of extremism but, for some reason
Black Identity Extremism is something that the FBI believes, or certain parties at the FBI believe needs to be monitored in this extreme way. Anyway, that’s the
backdrop of this and Rakim is believed to be the first person who’s been detained under this Black Identity Extremist designation, and particularly why he
was on the FBI’s radar is he’s made a number
of very inflammatory, very offensive remarks
about law enforcement and the death of law enforcement officers on Facebook and on Twitter,
and it’s explicitly said in his trial that the reason he ended up on law enforcement’s radar
is because of these things. Specifically, an FBI,
and this isn’t a bit, the FBI officer that first flagged him found out about him from Alex Jones. So the FBI officer watches InfoWars and saw InfoWars covering not even Rakim’s group, but another group of black activists marching around. And you can imagine the InfoWars
coverage of this, right. – I, uh, we watched a lot of that. – We spend a lot of time with
that fine gentleman, right, but so that’s the sort
of level of thinking that is going into this, at least that’s the criticism of it, right. So anyway this guy ends up in jail, Rakim ends up in jail for five months, held without, denied parole, effectively, ultimately the charges are dismisses, the judge is effectively like, “This is nonsense, you can’t jail a person “because of things they said on Facebook.” And he was set free,
but the coverage of that obviously caused a lot of consternation you know, across everybody that cares about civil rights. So that’s the background of this. Anyway, we were interested in that group, that particular treatment under
the Black Identity Extremist designation, what their deal is generally, their relationship to gun rights, because a black militant group like this has a different relationship to gun rights than a lot of other progressive groups. The difficulty about
trying to tell the story of Rakim and Guerrilla Mainframe quickly is, ultimately, a difficulty
I think we ran into on this show, which is
that some of the statements that Rakim and Guerrilla
Mainframe have made are so inflammatory that there is gonna be a certain segment of the population that just shuts down in response to them. And one of my concerns
about trying to do that was trying to unpack that sort of with the detail and care that it deserves to be unpacked and, to my sensibility, to get people through
the discomfort with that. And to be clear, with
this kind of militant rhetoric that discomfort
is part of the point. – The headlines with Rakim,
rightfully so or not, focused on the rhetoric
that was there to get attention, that talked
about killing police in a flippant manner, “laugh my ass off” or “LMAO” I remember was one of the things that stood out there. And so I recall at the
beginning part of it it was like “Oh, it’s tough.” As we’re choosing things to put on television, is this
the kind of thing, are we signal boosting a group
that is more problematic than it is helpful? I remember that being part of the early discussions we had there. And I think, like, as this story evolved we did find this day when they were having the protest. The detail that seemed
unique, and a fun way in was, on that same day they
were having that protest another group was having
a protest, also in Texas, also using an open carry protest. Specifically, their protest
was to bring attention to open carrying, and more specifically constitutional carry, and that group was Open Carry Texas, a
group run by C.J. Grisham. They are there to normalize the idea of brandishing a weapon in Texas. They had some success a couple years ago, Texas is an open carry
state, and it’s part of the efforts they had taken to make it an open carry state. What they are pushing
for, they are consistently pro Second Amendment, pro gun rights, and there’s smaller laws
that they are consistently, C.J. is often at the State Building attempting to push forward on that, but what they were doing there was a thing called constitutional carry, which essentially is the rights, the Constitution gives
you the right have a gun and to carry a gun and they don’t want those extra steps to open carry. Once you get a gun you
should be able to open carry, was essentially what they
were out in Gonzalez, Texas, with their guns, trying
to get people to feel comfortable with guns and to support the idea of constitutional carry. – And just to go back to the sort of origination phase of
this, one of the reasons that Lucy was so excited about Open Carry Texas specifically was because Open Carry Texas is quite extreme, too, in a lot of ways. And one of the ways
they’re extreme is that their leader C.J. Grisham
has also made a lot of inflammatory, violent statements about police the kind of
slightly different context more about, you know,
the Bundys, basically, you know, cops coming for, you know, “If anyone messes with my
cattle rights, I’ll kill ’em.” kind of thing. I’m not, that’s not a direct
quote I just, you know– – That’s just your own personal beliefs. – Exactly, yeah. – Big cattle rights guy. – If grazing rights aren’t a thing– – Kobi, we don’t have time.
– I’m sorry, it’s a soapbox, it’s a soapbox. – You and your grazing rights soapbox. – But it is true. What we started to find, so
C.J. is a controversial figure, (grinding electric guitar) he has been arrested multiple times, he is often an aggressor. In 2018, C.J and OCT had a standoff with police in Olmos Park, Texas – [C.J] So you got an AR-15 because a man is lawfully carrying. – Get on the ground. – [C.J] No, we’re not
getting on the ground. – Get on the ground. – [C.J] We’re not getting on the ground. – Get on the ground, I’m
not gonna tell you again. – [C.J] I’m not doing
anything against the la– – Get on the ground! (C.J. cries out) – [Officer] Hey, get back! – This event was remarkable because no one got killed, and because in response to C.J.’s provocation Olmos Park repealed their gun ordinance. – That was a tense situation, they ask you to get down, you didn’t get down. What do you think would have happened if you were black and
that situation arose? – It happens to white people, it happens to black people. When it happens to a black person they get a lot of
credit, they get a lot of attention for it, but when it happens to a white guy we don’t get the same kind of attention. It’s
not a black or white thing – I don’t think black
people are getting credit for dying at the hands of police. That’s not exactly a credit they’re tying to put on their IMDb page. – No, I don’t think it is,
I’m trying– (cymbal roll) – And as you look into it, he has said some very similar things aimed at cops online, on Facebook. – And hasn’t been
persecuted in the same way for those statements, hasn’t been jailed for those statements, and, you know, one of the ambitions with this episode is you’re trying to show different
treatment under the law and you’re trying to
show, what essentially is, you’re trying to pin down unconscious bias and the way it attacks,
it turns into actual violence in communities and actual violations of civil rights. It’s sometimes hard to
prove, and sometimes hard to see real concrete evidence of, and one of the things we
liked about this contrast was, and that we thought we could do in this format that we can’t necessarily do at The Opposition was, in showing someone who has also made violent anti-police statements but not faced some of the same
ramification, it’s easier, theoretically at least,
it gives some context for people that are shut down by the violent rhetoric as such. It gives some context to them for why even if you find that rhetoric offensive, even if you find that
rhetoric a nonstarter, the treatment of, you
know, Rakim specifically around this rhetoric is a
broader civil rights problem that we should all be concerned about and emblematic of the
various disproportionate treatments under the law, of which killing unarmed people is
just one horrific example. – And I think one of the first things we wanted to do with this,
just because of this day, it gave us a focal point to like, “Let’s go and see what,
experientially, can happen.” What were your expectations going down to Dallas to essentially
an open carry protest? – Um yeah, well I–
– You’re not a big guns guy. – I’m not a big guns guy,
so there’s some jokes early in the episode, and
when I’m at the gun range. (grinding electric guitar) I shoot a gun for the
first time in this episode, so you should probably
watch it, if you haven’t. Hello, hello. So this is my first time. – Just relax, be comfortable,
you’ll be good to go, man. – Would you like to… (gunshots drowning out dialogue) – I can’t hear. – Just come on. – Okay. – [Rakim] So, now, do
a slow, steady squeeze, and breathe out as you’re
coming towards the end. (gun fires) – Goddamn (gun firing) – It feels like I fucking
summoned lightning. (laughing) – Yes! – Something that’s wild about it is just the physical thing you do, which is just this little
finger pull, you know, that’s what you call it,
right is finger pull? That’s the technical term?
– Finger pull, yeah. You’re a real pro. What do you do? That finger pull. – I’m good at body stuff,
I’m an athlete, you know. Yeah, cool, cool, cool. – Yeah, no Clint Eastwood
often talks about, like, the finger pull. – Yeah, totally, exactly. – Yeah, I remember those classic moments, those classic finger pull lines. – Yeah, I think my career from here is going to be as an action star, we don’t need to get into it.
– I don’t think you will. (both laughing) – But the reaction you get from the weapon is so wildly disproportionate
to the thing you do, that it’s a very surreal experience in that way, I found. – Yeah, actually I think
that’s a really nice way of putting it. I think for a lot of people
that is the draw, right? That you have that access to that power, and for a lot of people
that is also the giant fear, I’m like, by no means
should I have whatever you can do to have that kind of power, because whether or not yourself with that amount of power. – And I think that the symbolism of that is not lost on me in the
context of this episode because I think what
you have is two groups very much interested in the personal power and the empowerment and the masculinity, you know, traditionally
defined, that comes from wielding that, from physically having that and from being seen having that, and for Guerrilla Mainframe I think it’s a powerful antidote
to the lack of agency that they’re experiencing
in their community. If you can be in your own home and a police officer can walk in and just shoot you to
death while you’re sitting in your own house, you know, if that’s the level of agency
you have, having a tool or a symbol that is the opposite of that powerlessness, there’s a seduction to that that I understand,
that fills a hole that I think it’s
reasonable to want filled. And then I think with a lot of sort of run-of-the-mill gun rights guys it’s about, it’s a little more cosplay, like you have a great joke in the episode where you call one of the guys John Wick, and I think that’s what
it is, it’s a fantasy about a kind of masculine prowess that maybe they don’t
feel in other respects in their life or that
is satisfying to imagine being the hero, the protector, the savior. – For sure. – And it’s like, but
the difference between wanting that kind of power because it sort of feels good and scratches an itch in you broken masculinity is very different than
wanting that kind of power because you’re afraid for your life and feel powerlessness. – Well said. Definitely the experience I had when I was out in Gonzalez
with the open carry group, there was probably about 30 or so people who were open carrying (grinding electric guitar) of all ages, even down to, I believe, a 13-year-old, who was open carrying. What are you carrying? – I don’t know the specific number, I know it’s an AR, I
believe it’s an AR-15. – It’s an AR-15. Do you like open carrying? – Uh, yes. – Why is that? – It’s just, like, if we don’t have any open carry, if we
don’t get to have our guns then what happens is
that there’s gonna be, just gonna be chaos, like we’re not going to be able to protect ourselves. – How much practice do
you have on that thing? – I don’t have practice right now, I’m just open carrying it. I feel responsible for protecting others because I’m the one that could provide protection with the gun. – That’s a lot of responsibility
for you, you’re 13. – Yeah. – Is that good for you guys? A 13-year- old carrying an AR-15? – He’s probably a better shot than I am. Well, that’s not true, not many people are better shot’s than I am.
(cymbal roll) – I think for me the issue that I always get caught up on is like, there’s the idea that I have a gun, this is my right to bring it in. They rarely take into effect how the gun does change speech in that situation. You’re injecting a potential
threat into a situation and you’re limiting other people’s ability to be free because
you’ve injected the idea of violence, and you call it protection, and if you’re not lucky enough to be one of the people who feels safe in that environment, that
person has the upper hand. I feel like that’s
often not reckoned with. At the same time, I will give, like, the arguments that feel
most compelling to me with Open Carry Texas, I
do think are essentially libertarian arguments,
and a lot of that is, like what the Second Amendment means and I have these rights, they feel very anti-government, “You shouldn’t be able to take anything away from me.” And I think we’ve talked
a lot about this here. I think open carry, I think they are able to reckon with what I deserve but they have a hard time
reckoning, sometimes, with how that affects culture, but to them that doesn’t matter. Initially, I thought this
piece was going to be, we’re going to see what
happens at two open carry, I think I was probably overly simplistic in my assumption going in. I was like “Oh, two open carry groups, “in Texas, that feels like that’s a “Texas day, that’s a Texas
a day as you’re gonna get. “We’re gonna go, I’m gonna go off on one, “Kobi can go off on one. “We can kind of tell
this stor to see, like, “what is the reaction to these groups?” – And to be clear, they were happening at literally the same time. – Yes. – It was like the same
morning at the same time. There’s a shot in the
episode of us FaceTiming with each other, which
is, we didn’t cheat, that’s real, that happened, right? – Yeah, I think, like, it felt like a social experiment. I think
also at that point in the show it was like, “Let’s go without “a whole lot of expectation
what we’re getting back.” – And, I was just, and I
think one of the things we were very curious
about was just to watch the experience of a bunch of black guys walking around with guns and a bunch of white guys walking around with guns, and just see how they’re treated and see what the temperature feels like, you know, in the room, as it were, walking around with those groups. We really wanted to see what it was like for those two groups, you know, a black group and a white group walking around with guns,
and when we say guns we mean guns, right? – They’re big guns. (Kobi laughing) There were some guns on the hip but it was mostly giant,
giant military-style weapons. – Yeah, these are long guns, there’s no missing these guns, you
know, and it’s a gaggle of these people, which is what you call that’s a technical term for a group of men with guns.
– It’s a gaggle of guns. – It’s a gaggle of guns.
– Yes, yes. (laughs) – But it’s, you know,
with Guerrilla Mainframe they’re marching in
formation, it’s, you know 20 or 30 folks walking around with weapons, you know, and Open Carry Texas probably a little smaller than that. 15, 10, 15, 20 guys? – I would say 15
– [Kobi] 15 guys, yeah. – Yeah, it fluctuated, and I think they also had big guns, I think their purpose there was this normalization and
so, they had those guns, they wanted to be seen with those guns. They had guns and
flyers, and C.J. Grisham, who is the leader, C.J. is very congenial. Or genial. Congenial? Genial. – I think congenial is like a disease. – Oh. Is he– – Or no, that’s congenital. Congenital is a disease. – He’s genital. Is he genital? – He’s genital. (Jordan laughing) C.J.’s genital, let’s go with that. – You, this is my genital
friend over here. (laughs) But his goal was to be
a friendly as possible, and so he’s handing out flyers with a big old gun on his back, saying like, “Oh, hi ma’am, hi ma’am, we’re here “to talk about constitutional carry, “take this flyer.” Like, to be a presence,
but to almost blend into the background, which was
very different than the way in which Guerrilla
Mainframe was hoping to affect the group. – Yeah, so it’s really
interesting, with almost everything you talk about with Guerrilla Mainframe you have to talk about
different audiences, because there is sort of one audience, which is the black
community they come from which is the working class community, working class, predominantly
black community, faces this kind of police
violence regularly, has a number of other
very legitimate complaints about the way structural racism has impacted their
community, and so you have to talk about that audience,
and then separately you have to talk about what I would call the white mainstream audience, which has a different reaction to some of these signifiers. So Guerrilla Mainframe’s posture, is, I would say, confrontational, right? But the question is, what
are they confronting? And what they are confronting is a paradigm that lets black people get killed in their own homes, right? And even though that
posture is confrontational to something, different
audiences read that differently. So when we were walking through that working class black community, it doesn’t feel confrontational. It feels actually quite
warm and friendly and known, and so we’d get Black Power signs, so that kind of confrontation, even though the posture is an antagonistic posture, it’s a confrontational posture, how that’s received by the audience is as empowering and as nourishing because the experience is like, “Oh, thank God, someone is expressing “how we feel in the
face of this violence.” And I have to say, for me personally, I was surprised, I expected
to be mostly afraid, because of police
retribution, my fear was, I’m afraid to be a black
person walking around in general, you know, because of this kind of police
violence, I’m certainly afraid to do it when we’re
black guys with guns. Like, if my cell phone can be perceived as a gun and I can be shot to death, like, if I’m around actual guns, that’s legitimately frightening to me. So I was legitimately afraid walking in, and what I was surprised
by in the working class black community was how nourishing it felt to have this posture of confronting the system that makes me feel afraid walking around like that all the time. Right, and I think that’s what that community responded to, and, you know you can say what you want
about the effectiveness of that protest, you can say what you want about the positivity of guns being out in public at all, but it was absolutely striking to me
how personally, and also in the community, that posture felt like a deeply nourishing counterpoint to the sort of pressure and persecution that that community and I
personally feel all the time. So that’s sort of one audience, right? And then functionally what happens is we started in this working
class black community and then crossed over and
were at the UT-Oklahoma football game, which is a lot of uh, (Jordan laughing) you know, you know, like a Saturday. – Yeah. It’s, how do we get this,
how do we make it more Texas? – Yeah, so it’s a bunch
of, you know, I was about to call them good ol’
boys, is that offensive? Is that like a slur against the South? – It’s offensive to my people, I come from a long like of good ol’ boys. – Yeah, so forgive me, I
apologize to the South, broadly speaking. (Jordan laughing) But it’s, you know it’s the– – They knew where they were walking into. – Yeah, it’s frat boys, right?
– Yeah – One of the things that’s incredibly hard to capture on camera, and I think is also
difficult to communicate to people who don’t have this experience in one axis of their life or other, but the discomfort stepping outside of your place, is that when you are being uppity, like
there’s a particular way you get regarded as a black person when your uppity, right? Which is that if I walk into a place that’s too expensive, or if I walk into a particularly white
place, there is a tension that comes into the air,
of the way I’m regarded until I can offer a couple of signifiers that say “Oh no no, don’t worry, “I’m not, like a black
guy who wandered in here, “I’m like, a middle class black guy, “who, like went to an Ivy League school, “and, like, has money,
and can, like, talk good,” There’s a certain, the sort of texture of that discomfort is very difficult to explain if you’re not familiar with it. And there’s violence on
the back of that, too. We’re coming off more than a century of domestic terrorism,
in terms of black people being afraid about how
being uppity in that way and being in communities they’re not supposed to be in, asserting power and agency that they’re
not supposed to have, can literally be a death sentence, right? And so that texture is
still in the culture, so that’s a long way of saying that there’s one experience that
I was expecting to have, of just being with guns and people being uncomfortable around
guns, and I think we both had that experience and
saw that in different ways people in Texas find that banal, people in Texas find that uncomfortable. But there’s a whole other
texture to this experience, once we’d crossed over
into the white community which is just watching a group of middle class white
people be uncomfortable at black people taking
a power and an agency that they’re not comfortable
with them having. Does that make sense? – I think so, yeah. – And it’s a really difficult experience– – How does that show itself? How do you become aware of that? – So I’ll give you an
example, which is that, and I think this is an example I think we will have different
perspectives on this in terms of how it showed up on the tape. Which is, there’s that gentleman, I think he’s still in this cut, who’s like, “You know we
didn’t use to see that.” (grinding electric guitar) The guy who’s like “We
didn’t use to see that “back in my day.” – Do you know what this is? – I have no idea. – I don’t know but it makes
you uncomfortable, don’t it? It’s not like the America I grew up in for the last 63 years, I promise you. – Yeah, no, I definitely tell you that. We were much more
separated before, for sure. – Right. (cymbal roll)
– I made a segregation joke. Because I’m classy – Thank you, I would go dick joke there, it would’ve been out of place, it wouldn’t have–
– Different strokes – Yeah, we each have
different strong suits. He’s noticing something,
and to him it’s like, “This is just not how it should be.” – Yeah. – Which is probably the
most kind reading of that, is an unconscious bias,
and probably the most pointed reading is just a conscious bias. – Yeah, and so a cleaner
example is actually something we cut, and I don’t think it was a bad decision to
cut this, but there was– – Thank you. There were a group of kids, there were a group of teenagers who I interviewed on camera and I was like “Are you comfortable
with the group that you “just saw go past?” And they were like “Oh,
yeah, no problem, whatever.” Or no, this is what it
was, they pretended they didn’t see them, so they were like, I don’t know if you remember these guys, and I was pretty hard
on them in the interview and I think too, I know there was, one of our white colleagues was like “I think you’re being too hard on them.” and you know, whatever
whatever in terms of what showed up on camera but they were talking about the group when we walked up, and they were talking
about calling the police on them when I walked up. – Oh really, I didn’t know that. – And so I heard that and so I was probing because I was like
“Motherfuckers, I just heard you, “I just heard you talking
about calling the police “on them.” And they’re like “Oh, no
man, I didn’t even see that.” and this is the sort of
doublespeak that I think I’m attuned to in a
different way, just because of my experience with this stuff, right? And it’s an incredibly difficult thing to, an experience like that
is a bit of a Rorschach, where it’s like in all
the nonverbal behavior that’s coming at me
from people all the time and it’s like there’s
all these studies about how so much communication
is not about language and what you’re literally
saying but just like the vibe you’re sending out. It’s why everybody
thinks we’re so charming, it’s not our words it’s our energy. – Thank you. – But there’s the nonverbal
energy I’m getting from that context is so deeply hostile and deeply uncomfortable in a way that is very hard to communicate
to people who aren’t attenuated to hear that
discomfort as danger. Does that make sense? Because when I feel that
discomfort in a group of white people, I’m like “Oh, shit.” I am like “I need to be aware because “I am in trouble.” Because that level of concern from a police officer is something that could kill me, that level of concern is gonna get
the police called on me, that level of concern is
gonna get me into a conflict in my nice middle class
restaurant that I’m in, you know, and so it’s
perhaps a hyper-awareness to it but that discomfort is a real thing, and that’s very much what we got when we crossed over into
that white community. – That totally makes sense. I guess my thought in that is, that’s also the intended
response, correct? – Sure, yeah. – So is that a successful form of protest? In the fact that you are able to see that, in the fact that you
have some white people going to a football game who are like, “Holy shit, what is this? What is this?” and then they’re forced to
have that conversation then. Like, no matter what, if I’m going to a football game and a bunch of people are coming up with guns,
I’m gonna talk about it. And then if a camera comes up to me, I’m probably gonna be like, “Uh, I wasn’t talking about it.” Now, I don’t doubt that there is a giant racial component there, of course, but I’m wondering, is
that how that situation is going to play out? – I think it’s as much about, you know, angry anti-police chants and a bunch of loud black guys being loud and direct and confrontational and black as it is the weapons on their backs. In terms of whether or
not that’s successful, I think it’s a really good question, and it’s an audience question, right? So there’s the one conversation about it being nourishing to a community that feels stepped on, and then there’s a conversation about, okay what are we doing with
this kind of rhetoric? One of the functions of
this kind of militant posturing, rhetorically, is to say, “Okay, well, if you are comfortable “with this kind of
violence being done to us, “what do you feel, like come with me on “the empathetic exercise of imagining “if this kind of violence came back to you “and your community.” And the level of discomfort
that white people feel when they hear somebody like Rakim talk so cavalierly about the death of white police officers, that level of discomfort is the level of discomfort a mainstream white audience should feel every single time they hear about a black person being killed. And I think the criticism,
the most generous, sophisticated reading of this vocabulary of protest is that, okay well, obviously, nonviolent protests, Black Lives Matter, all these other modes of trying to communicate
how fundamentally, viscerally unjust the situation we’re in, all that’s not really
getting the job done, and so I’m going to try to reflect back the kind of violence we
are experiencing at you and see if that shakes anything. So, to your point, it is designed to make people, I think, uncomfortable, and I think the question
is whether or not, is what we then do with that discomfort. What does that discomfort mean? And do I have a similar
level of discomfort about the injustices
they’re complaining about? – The argument that you make is, I think, and incredible argument, and I think, like, what you’re asking
for is an engagement with a white community
that is not engaging with a community that is under duress, that is feeling that this kind of stress, and has felt this kind of violence for a hundred years, but the articulation of that in the moment is,
obviously it’s the guns to grab attention. It is chants, it’s chants,
it’s “Oink oink, bang bang.” Like, the chants are directed at police – Yeah, that’s about killing police. – 100 percent. – That is a chant about killing police. – So I feel like you
have, there are definitely people on the right,
there are people who are very critical of Guerrilla Mainframe specifically because of their tactics because of the lines that they cross. Again, this is the
conversations that we were having, like, when you are there and you are seeing that happen, and you’re having that emotional journey to see how people are reacting to that, are you frustrated with the means that they’re using to elicit that reaction or do you find this reaction, I understand that it’s a
reaction out of necessity, but how comfortable are you with that form of protest? – It’s difficult to, I have my ambivalence about it, right? Like I don’t, I have my
ambivalence about it, I think. But, my sort of first order, before I can engage with my own personal ambivalence about it, I have, sort
of first and foremost, the work of asking other people, asking white people, effectively, to engage with it honestly, and it’s one of the frustrations about working on this piece, honestly, is that I do have real questions about this group
specifically, and I do have real questions about whether or not this mode of protest moves the needle in a positive way. The same questions I had about the Black Panther Party, and militant Marcus Garvey groups on
back through the history of black people. But again, to me that’s sort of a second-order problem,
because the first-order problem is asking for meaningful engagement with the thing that it is. And I find that, and I
found working on this piece that the discomfort that is produced by the rhetoric is so loud that it shuts white people down. – But is the actions,
are they disqualifying? – In what sense? – Well, I think– – It’s language, no, it’s language, you know what I mean? – But at some point somebody shuts off, and we’re aware of when you push something so somebody shuts off,
and I think the reticence that you have if people
hear “Oink oink, bang bang.” If you hear something
online that is making fun of police officers who are
dead and their families, and you challenged Rakim on that. Is that a line that is
crossed at which point you are not going to be heard because you have crossed that now delegitimizes the argument that you have? – It’s a larger conversation about decorum in politics, about decorum, you know, and propriety, and there are communities that feel like they don’t have the luxury of being polite because they’re dying. I do have concerns, I often
wish groups like this, and I very much include
the Black Panther Party in this, were more
thoughtful and deliberate about how this kind of
confrontational messaging can be useful and can
be counterproductive. Like, I almost always
want groups like this to be a little more sophisticated with how they wield the powerful tools that they’re wielding. But again that’s like,
that’s let’s shut the door and have that conversation separately. Because to me that’s an abdication of responsibility as
a mainstream audience, and it’s an abdication of responsibility as white listeners to say, “Okay, well you haven’t
packaged this for me “in a way that makes me comfortable, “therefore, I have permission to keep “shutting the door on this.” It’s a less conservative version of the conversation about
Kaepernick and kneeling which is like “Oh, I get
that police brutality “is is a thing you wanna talk about, “but the way you’re doing it, “the nature of this protest turns me off “so I’m not going to
engage with the substance “of your criticism because the manner “of your speech is shutting me down.” It’s a similar criticism, right? – But I would say, I remember watching your interview with Rakim and, I think we even watched this together, and I think, like, – I remember this I remember very clearly. – You ask him about his Facebook posts, and you say, like “These police officers “were killed in Dallas, and you said LMAO “smiley face.” And Rakim was like “Oh,
yeah, I laughed, I laughed.” Rakim owned it. (grinding electric guitar) And he was joyous at a few moments, and for me, I’m like “Fuck this guy.” – Do you stand by those statements? – I didn’t say those
officers as individuals deserved what they got, I said the police
department deserved that. – So, just to be clear, I’m pretty sure the exact quote was “They
deserve what they got.” and I think it was, “LMAO” afterwards. – Yes, and I was laughing, and I’m still laughing today, just like
they’re laughing at me, right? Because as a black person what you hear is Trayvon Martin, is
Michael Brown, Tamir Rice. Eventually at some point
it become frustrating. – How can you, then,
turn around and celebrate other people, going through the pain of losing people that they love? – Just like America celebrated Hiroshima and Nagasaki, after
Pearl Harbor, you know. It’s just, you guys get
to grieve, for a change. – Do you have any intention
of doing something like what he did? – No. Killing police officers is not gonna stop police brutality, if anything
it’s gonna encourage it. You know– – But couldn’t you say the same thing about your statements, though? – I wanna be provocative
enough to get their attention. – Okay.
(cymbal roll) – I was like, “This
negates everything he did “up until this point.” And also I’m like, “I
feel weird about putting “this guy on television because of that “aggressive stance.” Also I feel protective, because I do think I agree with the things that you’re saying in the attention that they’re bringing, but I’m like, “This is delegitimizing “all the stuff he did before.” Like, in order to try to amplify the actual story, which,
at that point, to me felt like drawing attention
to police violence against African-American communities, specifically in Texas, it’s like you have a guy who’s laughing about cops getting killed, and like, guess what the stories gonna be, the stories gonna be
the guy who’s laughing at cops getting killed. We want it to be about something else, we can’t amplify that part of that story. – It’s interesting, and I appreciate your bringing up that, you
watching it for the first time, because I was really struck by that, that was a striking
moment just in the process of making that for me because I’ve never seen you react so
negatively to an interview subject before. My experience of it was
that you were really quite reviled by that and
really quite disgusted by that in a way that
I think is, is, that’s your personal reaction
and is very appropriate in that respect. But I remember being
very surprised by that because I don’t have,
I challenge him on it in the interview. I find those statements
at the very least clumsy, and at the very most, immoral. But they don’t elicit the
same real repulsion for me, and I do think that is
a racialized difference, because there is, and this is not a you personally thing, this is just the fucking culture. Black people are scary in this culture, and I think that part of why that reaction for not just you, for a couple other of the white writers on the show had such a negative reaction to that was because of the racial coding of that language coming out of the mouth of a black guy. And the situation that pivots me into is not being able to engage with my own ambivalence about it because it’s like, oh shit, I get that reaction, and then I also get why
that kind of language is totally banal and just an NWA album. There’s a long history in pop culture of, like, people saying that kind of stuff where it’s just a kind
of rhetorical posturing. – Sure. – From a community that’s just like, beat up by the cops, and is just like “Well, not fuck you, fuck you!” There’s something
pedestrian about it as well. And the fact that it
reads as really dangerous and reads as really disquieting and raises a real earnest engagement and endorsement of that kind of violence, I do think is racialized. And I don’t think it’s about the skill of us as storytellers to tell that story but I think it’s about,
and I think this is a really difficult thing, it’s a more difficult thing for you,
that me in some ways, but to engage honestly
with that discomfort, and to tell the story of that discomfort which is your honest reaction to it, while also telling the story of some of my experience of it, which
is where the discomfort is not the headline, the
discomfort of that language and that kind of violent rhetoric is not the headline, the discomfort is “Look what “this particular group’s organic response “to the other violence
they’re suffering is.” And the most elite version of this story is being able to tell
both of those experiences at the same time. And it’s super hard, it’s super hard. – I think what was interesting too in putting this together, functionally, the way you make television is you have these stories and you
have to edit them down and you pick the things that represent the experience that you had, and you put them in an order, and we got into an interesting conversation
and debate about if we’re representing them correctly. And I think this got down, it got into the minutiae, it got into the music choices we were using to address them– – Underscoring what we’re using. – How we underscore them, like– – What order do we introduce them in? – Right. – Like whether or not we can show C.J. Riding on a bike and being playful, whether or not, you know, like, we had a bunch of discussions. – And I’ll admit, honestly,
we had four writers, you’re the only black writer. – I was aware. – You’re aware, but I think like, I probably wasn’t. I think that is unfair, as somebody who’s like, you’re also an actor in this, you wear many hats, you’re doing a lot of things there. You’ve written on all these episodes, on the one you’re in, and all of that, but you’re also representing
the only voice in the room who sees it from that perspective. And I do think, like,
I saw my own ignorance in that discussion, but I do think it’s an important conversation to have and it’s one that I don’t know if I would have had without being challenged. – I appreciate, because we had some tense discussions about this at different points, you
know, and I appreciate you were really receptive
to my perspective on it but the thing that’s difficult, and I’ve said this in different ways even in this conversation,
but the situation it puts me in is, I don’t have the luxury of my own ambivalence, because I end up fighting for the sort of most favorable view of these subjects and these groups because it’s underrepresented in the room. And it’s what it is, that’s the role I ended up taking on this
particular conversation. It’s tricky, it’s a tricky situation to be in. That’s what it was. – That’s what it was. (laughing) Kobi, I love talking to
you about this stuff, and I feel like this was really a learning experience. This was a tough episode to work on. I really respect what you
do and what you bring to it. (upbeat guitar music) Thank you for trying to keep me honest. – Jordan, thanks so much
for coming on my podcast (Jordan laughing) Oh shit, you’re supposed to– – Oh shit, yeah. (laughs) – I’m sorry. – I just got into it. – If you liked listening to this podcast, you’re gonna like watching it even more. Go check out Klepper, it’s
on all of your devices including your television. Go check it out. Thank you for listening.

100 thoughts on “When Guns, Race and Activism Intersect, Things Get Complicated – Klepper Podcast

  1. I don’t care what race you are. If you are able to lawfully purchase a gun, you should be able to carry it open at all times without being harassed or even questioned

  2. FBI/ CIA are institutionally Racist , they are always undermining the US Constitution based freedom and liberty .
    yet again they are steering under the table a different kind of extorted constitution . these 1% of Benjamins needs to be removed from the USA .
    they the whole America thru theft & Bankruptcy .
    everything is in the USA they are causing these division and hate among each others.

  3. America you bombed many Countries , and killed innocent lives . now you live by your own sword , and die your own sword.

  4. "black guys have guns cuz we're powerless." and "white guys have guns cuz they dont feel like men without them." what kinda dumb shit is this

  5. Klepper…. The Constitution does NOT confer the right to carry a gun. It SECURES said rights for those that have use/trust within the limits of the constitution. Yes, you're another Albino Joominotti fake; spewing lies seasoned with truth; to further push the masses into hell. Take your crumbs and hide under a rock. The Gig is up because the American Giants have awoken and are taking back their position.

  6. Dear pussy ass left it is simple I have no problem going toe-to-toe with someone I'm getting a little old for it but trust me I can still hold mine but if a weapon is drawn I would like to have one on me as well to defend myself at the same level bad guys can get guns regardless what you take from us you responsible carriers and if you know anything about guns it's pretty quick to find out who is responsible with one and who is not 2 Clipper and his buddy I see y'all never finished the video the white vs Black I wonder why that is lol I think we all know cuz our protest are for the rights to bear arms there's are going to sound a lot like antifa probably with a little more racism there have a lot of family that are cops and I'll tell you quickly most of their gun issues or with black so it's natural to feel a little more hesitant the situation should be a little more tense in that perspective correct so let's not be ignorant about this any longer

  7. 45:00 my masculinity not broken bruh it is my God given and Constitutional right just like yours to blab away on YouTube – no hate

  8. for the past 20 years it has been white males between the age's of 15 to 65 that has been doing all the mass killing in the United States…if you're in a synagogue, Church or Mosque, and you see a white guy who has never been in your place of worship, he's more then likely there to kill you….so you do anything and everything to bring this pig down, your life is worth more then their life…..

  9. Islamic terrorists? Is that a joke? 🤦🏻‍♂️ You’re in America not Syria or Iraq. Most of the terrorists are your own. White guys. #BrainWashed

  10. You can't fairly compare the two groups. The black group is protesting police violence agains blacks. The white group is protesting against losing our 2nd admendment rights for all colors.

  11. I don't understand how some one fighting for rights and understands the loss of rights is so blind as to produce this horse shit of a mockumentary.

  12. My goodness what a beta male's .Imagine those 2 girly boys making laws for the rest of the country we will be like an England. Look at the cities who banned gun and their crime rate ?enough said

  13. I hope you don’t claim to be journalists because you have a very clear bias throughout the entire video.

  14. Kobe caught me by surprise. He is a fantastic and highly objective journalist and writer / presenter. Kleeper’s visceral reactions reflected his attachments to being a “white” man. For the sake of his own growth, he would do well to deconstruct his identity and begin again as a human being.

  15. In a nut shell why are you so worried about if we 're too harsh with the stolen African expressions of discontent. Most of us are not on the plantation or in the house mentally that is.

  16. So you guys watch cnn i see why you lackin political facts. Its ok just stop watchin all national news and go independent you'll soon see why i said that

  17. Jordan Klepper: You have to understand the real reality of everything you guys just witnessed. I'm a mixed (person) not one race, but to be viewed because of the color of my skin doesn't matter to me. I don't follow what rappers do, I don't live my life trying to out drink someone or how much they have or how many bitches(women) they got or car's notice I put "women" in there because that's how a woman been seen or remembered as. I own so many weapons that if someone told me I'm not allowed to carry because of my skin is where I become insulted. I'm former military, I never judge anyone based off there thoughts. Of course people from the what they call, "old day" are going to have problems with "blacks, Hispanics, Asians" who has weapons. Everyones body language is different. I open carry every damn day. I've never been put in a situation where I felt like I had to fear for my life. I fear nothing in this life besides doing wrong in the eyes of GOD! Just my opinion.

  18. I get klepper up to the fact you let your racism show because he laughed at the officers who died you didn’t want him on the show but the open carry Texas group had a white 13yr with a gun he who nothing about yet had no training but wanted to be a hero?? I’m just lost on y’all understanding of what both groups does yeah gorilla mainframe is pretty aggressive but how else does black get attention ??

  19. It's strange how some white people are repulsed by this guy who is essentially laughing at police deaths when there are actual photos of white officials and common are celebrating and post cards that were passed around with black people being lynched and burned and mutilated. The deaths of black people by whites have been laughed at and mocked for hundreds of years. Not saying that laughing at someone's death is the right thing to do, but before getting repulsed by what this guy said, look at what your grandparents did.

  20. I noticed the white guy didn't go to both rallies. He didn't go to the black activist's rally. That seemed kind of racist.

  21. Fbi tracks all activists .. Go check waco ruby ridge ect. And I am white and support black ppl to keep in bear arms in peace and for deff.. Not to attack ppl

  22. And I think the NRA can do better on black 2 nd amendment rights and I believe they are trying those I reach out more .. We eat all law abiding black white Latino ect. To have rights to bare Arms

  23. This I the new left .. They see white and black folks fighting for a same right… So they try to decide us as it's easier for whites , and it could be but we're still fighting for same side , love them try to decide us by color .hope we fight each other and not fight for are rights .. Don't let the left separate the fight for the right ..period

  24. Can't often to these beta ducks anymore… How about we allow ppl to keep and hard arms and ask police not to shot anyone knees they need to, no matter what? Just a thought and when they do shot someone let's really look into that , the media makes it a fucking joke and the process gets high jacked . Let's not do that lets allow the truths to come out no matter who or what color they are , be just a thought

  25. So fbi has a mandate to follow black activist like they are huey freeman on the boondocks but JUST changed the definition of white supremecist terrorist actions to overt racially motivated domestic attacks. Looks like thhe fbi is apart of the GOP now

  26. Look at the extremely out of proportion violent black crime rate and your see why profiling takes place. Constitutional carry is legit and only. Those experiences are different and in different places involving different police. It isn't valid. This channel is biased and is a joke to any thinking person

  27. Look at the difference in the two different groups. The black guys are chanting and matching like the military. Lol

  28. The guy in the gray shirt spoke truth with GMF open carrying, oppose to that open carry guys to just carry guns. Like, no terrorist group is gonna hit a small town, they are going for big cities and big important buildings. I support GMF, even though I HATE guns. I do not support TOC. BIE is a racial target, this happened to Black Panther and now to GMF. Like Black Panther Party got Self Defense and Guerrilla Main Frame are giving to the community with food, work outs and more. I don’t see TOC doing any of that, but trying to make school shooting happen even more. We don’t need gun laws to expand, we need at least not allow auto guns to be owned my civilians since there are so many public shooting using those. They need a damn WIE for KKK & more. You see how they will go all walks of life to shut us up? Won’t happen.

  29. Only black identity policies for black activist since when trumps attorney generals sessions and now barr racist as hell!

  30. White PEOPLE JUST SEE REALITY THROUGH A DIFFERENT LENS DID YOU SEE THE WHITE GUY SAY WHEN BLACKS AND WHITES HAVE BAD CONTACT WITH COPS HE SAYS WE GET CREDIT I CANT THINK OF ONE BLACK PERSON WOULD SAY WHITE PEOPLE WHEN HAVING BAD CONTACT WITH COPS THEY GET CREDIT NO AND WE. DONT CONTROL THE MEDIA

  31. KLEPPER YOU DONT KNOW WE AS A PEOPLE' BEEN DEALING WITH THIS SHIT FOR WHAT 300 YEARS GIVE OR TAKE A YEAR AND YOUR PRECIOUS POLICE DEPT IS NOT THE POLICE DEPT WE DEAL WITH SO IF YOU THINK HE WAS TO MUCH FOR ENJOYING THE POLICE FEELING SOME PAIN OVER A DEATH I HAVE NEVER HEARD THE POLICE SAY THEY FELT SAD FOR A DEATH OF A 13 YEAR OLD TAMIR RICE SO FUCK YOU TOO

  32. So, what happened to video of the black organization that was open carrying????? NOTHING! You showed nothing in this video, and you should nothing in your next video! So much for your agenda.

  33. The funniest thing about all these comments is whites this , whites that …. whites are NOT in your neighborhoods and killing you as you do to each other in incredible numbers…. just a fact

  34. You fail the ideological Turing test. Gun rights = self defense right, not weapon brandishing. Weapon brandishing is illegal because it's aggressive by definition.

  35. The flippant reaction to cattle farmers, who are being unjustly disenfranchised and threatened by government reveals a troubling bias of you lefties.

  36. Wait….hold up…an off duty white, female police officer mistook someone elses house for hers and she shot him!?

    Someone slap me and tell me I repeated that wrong!??!?!?

  37. Hey #Klepper & Comedy Central…. El Paso sure coulda utilized that constitutional carry provision today eh? That guy you made sound so dumb about 'some crazy guy coming around the corner' is right. You think people carrying a gun to go shopping in a Walmart is a gun rights freak…. now there are 20 dead and some families wished someone had a gun other than the gunman.

  38. Wait! What? You've just spent almost half an hour explaining how white men w/ guns are just trying to "restore their broken masculinity" and that they are "victimizing" those who are uncomfortable around guns, because they are "injecting the possibility of violence". Then at 27:12 you do a complete reversal and imply that the residents of the "white middle class neighborhood" are racist because THEY are "uncomfortable around guns, because (the protesters) are injecting the possibility of violence"!? However, the black men are not marching with guns to "restore THEIR broken masculinity", oh no, they are simply "black people taking a power and an agency that they're not comfortable with them having". One might be tempted to ask how you would have handled the situation, politically speaking, if the white protesters marched through the streets of a black neighborhood? I would be willing to wager that you would have accused the white middle-class "cosplayers" of racism, and that it would have been a deliberate attempt to intimidate the residents of the black neighborhood. I mean if you guys think that certain speech is ACTUAL violence… then what the hell is walking in front of someone's house with an AR-15? Also, that little soliloquy at the end disavowing Raquim(?sp) and his vulgar language regarding the Dallas officers who were assassinated while, unironically, saving the lives of Black Lives Matters protesters, went too far. You really should have ended the video right after you said "fuck that guy"!

  39. All that background info on Christopher Daniels (AKA “Rakem Balogun”) to sympathize the viewers to him. However, the only backstory with CJ Grisham was to say that he has multiple arrests. Your Bias is showing. That being said I support the 1st and 2nd amendment rights of both groups.

  40. Timely that this pops up. So at about the 42min mark, they discuss Guerilla Mainframe's commentary on the Dallas shooting.

    Let's look at the part that we seem to forget about that day. The shooter opened fired and took the lives of, I think, 13 officers, instead of apprehending… Police strapped C4 to a bomb disposal robot, piloted it to the shooter's position and blew him up.

    I write this, a day after the El Paso Walmart shooting, killing 19 injuring 30 others… and he was apprehended alive, uninjured.

    When an oppressive group feels pain, because of the pain they have caused, their grief feels like a comeuppance.

  41. 3:20 .. communicate to people who are attenuated [attuned] to hearing … that kind of language. Wrong choice of word!

  42. At 13:00 there is a refusal by the mainstream to even admit that Black and Hispanic people face threats from 1) police and from 2) criminals, and lastly 3) murderous white supremacist. Sometimes the police contain people from groups 2) and 3).

  43. El Paso, Dayton Ohio, what's next? I don't agree with OCT. Especially, giving a minor access to lethal power to take a life. These high power rifle are designed for open ranges, war zones, and uniform law enforcement. They need to keep these weapons off the streets which can easily fall into the wrong hands._

  44. Lol if anyone threatens the police or is suspected of possibly doing a mass shooting or instigating violence against people they will be looked at by the FBI. Just because he's black doesn't mean if you threaten violence upon people and talk about murdering people that it's because he is black that they found reason to consider him a threat soley on that. The BGF marches around like they are about to start fucking ww3 while Nascar Billy and mud wrestler Kyle just walk around casually with their monster energy drinks. Which group looks more aggressive and more a threat lol. It's always an image thing so you walk around in military fatigues and bandanas looking mad as fuck with ARs it's a lil sus. Do I agree that African Americans need to worry about being targeted by the police absolutely! They are opressed and profiled it needs to stop. But take a step back and take a look at what you look like to people in this American society where African Americans are feared. By all means protect yourself. Protection is good but spreading threats of violence on social media is just plain stupid and ignorant. So don't be surprised pikachu face when the police come knocking on your door when you post pictures of you and your arsenal and comment like "it's time to pay" or "die pigs". Doesn't really instill safety in others.

  45. I dont know why this hatred towards each other exists? Then it becomes contagious.. and begin to hate the blacks..the browns.. the whites.. the yellows.. the greys..lol..but wait ! ..those are primary colors in a box of crayola color crayons..lol..at the end of the day were all people..

  46. I was jumped once by some black guys in park bench , these motherfuckers pushed me, long story short I had to give them my shoes, but at no point I felt like that was the end of my life, now i was once threaten by a white motherfucker with a riffle, didn't escalate ,but the coward showed me that he was armed, all these over a parking spot (not shitting you )
    Me being brown and Jewish, felt like I was gonna be on the news. the first example is ppl not being educated, the second person is an example of ppl not being educated and being able to carry a gun .
    change the color if your racism won't let you process this info. but facts are facts , guns shouldn't be allowed on the streets .

  47. @6:36 Cops to obtuse to not know your own apartment. 8 years of college to be a librarian, 6 months to be a gang member with lights on your car!

  48. it is good that libtardians let everyone know just how stupid they really are. thanks libtardians. can we just start the dance already?

  49. Klepper was reviled because he has the same prejudice as a liberal as a white racist would have. The hatred towards black men comes out even when you think you are liberal. He didn't have that same visceral feeling in his other reporting when whites thought the young black men who were slaughtered deserved it.

  50. I don't understand why people get so nervous around guns, its an inanimate object. You're paranoid if you see a rifle and instantly get scared, 99.9% of ppl dont have the balls to use that weapon anyway

  51. He lied to her. That's what ws. Never trust one with a gun. Walking around minorities flashing guns. He's threatening them

  52. 4:36 wow,! That's just premeditated murder and they know it. Lime really! She didn't notice the house was decorated differently? Fq liar. She was angry she has a black neighborhood. Blacks are under attack. This is ethnic cleansing.

  53. Black identity extremist lol. Whites say " you aren't like us". Black man says " okay". Whites man says " extremist kill him!". Umm what?

  54. 31:35 I can understand black people feeling judged when they enter a room full of garbage people whom think they are at the wrong place, don't belong there, or are not entitled to love themselves, but I don't feel comfortable with people with loaded guns in their hands. Black or white, just keep those guns home.

  55. This was educational and very much worth watching. I've been conducting my own experiment within my community and at work with a more diverse group of people. I'm black, "scary, I know", but when I'm being myself, which is usually calm, cool, and I would say passive aggressive, everyone seems to be fine and enjoy me being non threatening in their eyes. Often that would lead me to taking some jabs I don't care to take, but at the same time to really straighten it out would be petty even by my own standards. So I decided to be a living mirror to those who needed to truly see themselves. The results was astonishing!!! I became them to them. I gave them what they would normally give me. If they talked ugly, I talked ugly back. If they gave me excessive "playful" pats on the back, I did the same. For every sly comment there was one in return. I did this for about a week and found that no one liked me or wanted to be around me much. My true friends didn't get this treatment for they are my true friends and of all races. They actually got a kick out of my "new found power". It was hard to keep up because it pulled me out of my character and I'm not normally just an asshole. (But it was kinda fun while it lasted). After I put the "mirror" away and returned to myself, I had some serious conversations with my co-workers. The blacks understood immediately. (They never were the targets for this experiment). The latinos eventually got it, and haven't been playful since, but we still speak 😂😂, occasionally. And the whites are still oblivious or pretend to be and now keep their distance. It's not that they hated me, THEY HATED THE REFLECTION OF THEMSELVES. THE POINT IS TOO SIMPLE. IF YOU DON'T WANT IT DONE TO YOU, DON'T DO IT. Respect is mutual, not earned. That has also been tested. But if you need a test drive, disrespect or treat someone like shit and see if they'll respect you for it. On another note, I can't understand how blacks are the most hated people and throughout history has done nothing to no one. (Besides themselves). We need the mirror on another level. 😢😢😢😢

  56. The guy in the beginning said he carry a gun loaded in case of Islamic terrorist but the ones who shooting in mass are white supremacy terrorists aka white men

  57. I like gurrelia mainframe. It's a shame the government labels these Patriots as terriorst. However i love freedom and so do these folks. I'd March with them any day.

  58. I’m an ally and an active supporter of defending oneself with violence when needed, but geeeeeeeeezus Christ this episode was boring. I thought there’d be a LOT more time with the actual leaders and members of these groups, getting their views from different sides of their streets, but gaaaawd it was just that dude saying police have been bad and still are and black people are suffering the brunt of it. We KNOW THAT. Tell us something new you’ve discovered. Get more than sensational mini pop sequences with the leaders. MAYBE MORE SCENES OF THE BLACK LEADER DUDE DESCRIBING HIS ETHOS.

    Instead we got two interviewers, talented reporters without a doubt, but just going back and forth with tiny little slices of analyses, and a pretty repetitive “he said/he said” routine.

    11/10 would not watch again.

  59. 42 minutes in and I've yet to disagree with a single thing either of them have said. This is the smartest "real" conversation I've heard/listened to in a long time…

    Well done.

  60. 45 minutes and all they talked about was how they felt about the situation and what their perception of the situation was instead of showing us the interviews that they made with these people you go to two different towns and spend all day filming protests and then show 3 clips and I guarantee you that those three clips were edited to support their narratives

  61. While the FBI monitors the black man bringing awareness to injustices suffered by African Americans which they refer to as extremists caucasians continuously commit mass shootings then blame it on mental illness and too much video games but it is not regarded as an extremist act, they are not monitored they are allowed to stand trial after committing murders but the unarmed black man is always killed after reaching for an imaginary weapon……….but no America is not a racist country………tell that dumb white guy he had a visible weapon and was not killed the credit he says African Americans get is being killed for having an imaginary weapon, he disobeyed a lawful order with a visible weapon and was arrested without being tazed or shot and killed but America is not a racist country……..

  62. TYPICAL HO'AZZ whtboyz CANT WALK 5ft WITHOUT A WEAPON, amerikkka land of the thief home of the SLAVES fucc thiz demonic murderous fascist vile insidious korupt society n all itz allies u.s.a UNDER SATANz AUTHORITY

  63. Why is New Zealand's government beating the US in "WISDOM"? The ban on assault rifles was pretty much a no-brainer. I mean, really. Why is the USA and the NRA so weak on this issue?! Simply put: southern white pride, or WHITE SUPREMACY, cannot see themselves unarmed around a bunch of rightfully disgruntled employees who have yet to receive payment for the horrible sin of"SLAVERY". Not so incredible that there are people who long for the return of chattle slavery. I'm just saying.

  64. I think another reason some white people react negatively to the "LMAO" type response is because we have a different experience of the police than people in black communities like the one they're discussing. The context for me is that I've never had a reason to be afraid of the police as opposed to being constantly afraid that the police will shoot me. It's a different form of privilege but it's one most white people in first world countries have.

  65. Wow…two guys speaking about things they know nothing about and obviously they’re biased. This the perfect example of beta males. Learn how to be men then try this conversation again

  66. Oh I made a mistake I thought a guy was stealing my car so I shot him a few times. Then I found out it was his car… I am not a cop… what would happen to me? She shot a guy in his apartment.
    The next question is… Did he have a gun… NO. NO GUN, Then why shoot him
    It is 2nd-degree murder at least. If they can show that she had a problem with him or an argument with him in the past… OOOPs 1st Degree…

  67. I wonder why their answers are so DUUUUUMB. The 13-year old has NO practise but thinks he can protect people… With NO training… and the next guy says, "He is probably a better shot than me, well no one is….? And then what?

  68. Kobi speaks about engaging with "White People" which is also a generalization.
    Why not say… Engage with White gun owners in Texas. That is my idea of a reasonable
    way of speaking.

  69. So here is the argument. We're suppose to be comfortable seeing people walk around with these guns. I live in Dallas and I at times see people of all races walk around with guns. It's not normal and it never will be. So what happened in El Paso. We're the people in Wal Mart to be so comfortable they didn't fear that man with a gun who murdered all those people? How in the hell are we suppose to know who the but jobs are who want to see people relaxed so they can kill as many as possible or the person who really just wants to carry and not harm anyone? This is what the law needs to deal with. We have the right to carry but damit we also have the right to live.

  70. There is a big difference in this story they are not speaking about. Location. Dallas is a very diverse community. There are many black cops in Dallas and far less of these racist white cops because the white cops work very close with black cops. The current police chief and the previous see black. So you take those same black guys and put them in Little Rock, AR you have a completely different story here.

  71. Open carry is like a boxer leading with his face there's no element of surprise, but I get why they do it. In this context anyway. But..of course this guy interviews a 13 yr old boy and a halfwit.

  72. The only tension is the one that the person themselves, as that "tension" is only a perception that has no objective reality.

  73. The things he said could couse multiple deaths of police officers and why didn't Obama stop the FBI from these things you claim Info wars is a good channel that tells the truth and just because your far left doesn't mean there fake news CNN is fake news and you will never get my guns Alex I stand with you 😊 and these crazy ppl can leave if they don't like the USA

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *