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Top 5 Submachine Guns

– Hey guys this is Alex and Patrick at you with another TFBTV top five. Today’s top five is top five best SMGs. SMGs are probably my favorite
guns to shoot because they have low recoil, ammunition’s cheap, easy to keep on target.
– Relatively cheap. – Yeah, relatively cheap. And they’re just overall barrels of fun. – They are, they are. – So, what we have are
actually more than five because we included some honorable mentions. More than five SMGs that
are close to our hearts. – Yes, we just couldn’t shun the last two. – We couldn’t, we almost wanted
to factor the last two in and pay them some lip service
because of how important they are and how fun they are.
– Yes. – So without any further ado how about we kick it off with the
Thompson, and we’ll just do the Thompson and the MP40 together. Let you take the old MP40 there. – Gladly.
– Okay. And I guess I’m stuck with the Thompson. I say that kind of humorously
but I do prefer the MP40 to the Thompson from a purely fun factory point of view. But, the Thompson is obviously more of an iconic firearm, I think. – It is. I don’t know. I don’t know, I think
this might be more iconic. In America, that’d be more iconic. – True. – But, I think this would
be more iconic worldwide. – That’s very possible, I
don’t know though, the Thompson is iconic in its own right,
they’re both iconic guns. When I think of a machine gun, though, my mind immediately
jumps to the image of a, the silhouette of a Thompson. They’re both very important, the Thompson one of the first SMGs, along
with the Bergmann MP18. This employs some of the
elements of the Bergmann, including the telescoping
firing pin that makes the gun just a joy to shoot. Like I said it’s a much more
fun gun to shoot, this has a higher rate of fire though,
so if I came around a corner and saw a bunch of bad guys, you know, trying to take…
– Yes, but, keepin’ that one on target isn’t as easy as keeping this one on target. – Well, I mean, you have to
be somewhat manly to control the 45ACP cartridge, and… – You can’t do either, shut up. – And it does have a
steeper learning curve, the gun is, the stock
is lower, and it is… – It does wanna rise. – It does wanna rise a
lot more than the MP40. That’s in part because the grade and the cartridge, of course. But…
– Yes. – Also this gun’s much heavier. Probably about two pounds heavier. – At least.
– Yeah. Also fold the stock on that
and show ’em that the… – This is something that I think that the MP40 has advantage. – Yeah, now some of the earlier Thompsons, not the M1s, not the military
service ones, typically had a detachable stock. But, a folding stock
that retains the stock is always better than a
stock that simply detaches. So, you do have an advantage
there, and in weight, and in maximum amount of cartridges you can carry, just because the… – Right, now this is something else that, you know what I mean, it’s just not as good looking of a gun but, you know. – You’re talking the
MP40’s not as good looking? – No. – No, it’s definitely not an
attractive firearm but that doesn’t matter, you know? – As long as it works
– Yeah. – As long as it works. – Aesthetics comes second
to mostly everything in military applications of firearms. – Yeah. – But these are both
fantastic guns and rightfully, they were placed in the top five. – Yes. – It’s great we have one European design and one American design, so… – And I mean, honestly, kinda
going through them, you know, just in terms of importance,
these are kind of one and two. – Yeah. – I’ll say a draw for first. – Yeah, you know, it’s kinda
crazy, here I am holding my American Thompson
submachine gun in America, wearing a shirt with like,
an M1 garand clip but I’m also saying I prefer to shoot the MP40s, so, you know, take that as you will. But, they’re both fun,
they’re both awesome, they’re both good guns,
and they both rightfully earned a place in the top five SMGs. – Yes. – So, let’s move on. Patrick, I believe this
next one’s actually one of your favorites. – It is, I’ll hand you
the MP40 back real quick. – Sure. – It is. It’s kind of an obscure
gun though, unfortunately. – Unfortunately it never really took off. It was adopted in service by
the Mexican marines, I believe. Also by some units in Turkey and whatnot. From what some viewers
have actually emailed me. We have done a video on this gun and the MP40.
– We did. – You can click the link
that’s popped up on the screen if you wanna watch the MPL video. Which was actually, I think,
our first shooting video. – It was the, no, it was our first video that we shot for TFBTV period, I think. – Yeah, as a joint, yeah, as a team, yeah. For sure. It’s a really cool gun, guys. Just the handling characteristics are not, show ’em how the stock
doesn’t have any wobble. For being a…
– Well, I mean. For a wire stock, it’s… – It’s pretty bullet proof. – Super, super tight. – You can also use the
front as a fore grip. I don’t know if they intended to do that. – I don’t think that that was intended. – It can be done. – It can be, it wouldn’t be my choice. – No. And you’d think that
the fore grip, or sorry, the front end of the gun would
get very hot, but actually, it doesn’t at all.
– No, it doesn’t. And I think that has a lot to do with it being a nine millimeter. – Yeah, and it’s got what I would call a forward assist, and you think, well, why does an open bolt submachine gun have a forward assist? Well, I wouldn’t say it’s
really a forward assist. I think it’s in case a
cartridge doesn’t extract or gets stuck in the chamber. That way, you can force the bolt closed and then pull the cartridge out. – And to engage that, you kinda, you bring it back and
you push it in, and… – Yeah. – So, but all in all, this is a great gun. I mean, it’s light, it’s handy. I really think it should
have got a lot more, it should have a lot more
doctrines than it did. But, I mean, even shouldering it, you know, the sight range,
where you’ve got a gutter right up at the top,
and a peep sight below really is pretty outstanding. – It was one of the last, it
was kind of the death rattle of the open bolt SMG. It was one of the last open bolt SMGs that gave it that concept
of huzzah, you know? – Right. – ‘Cause the MP5 took off and just killed that whole deal. There’s not many out there today that, nobody starts and says, you know what, I’m gonna design an
open bolt submachine gun from the ground up these days.
– No, no. It’s kind of a dead concept at this point. But, I mean, really,
it is kind of a treat. I think it’s, you know,
kind of a forgotten gun that really should have been a little more prevalent than it was. – Yeah. Yup, you know, had that gun come out about five years earlier, which, I believe it came out in ’63. – Something like that. – Somewhere around there. And if it would have come out
much farther before the MP5, it might have been more successful, but it was too close to the MP5, so, so it wasn’t. But, movin’ on down
the line, we’ve got one that everyone will recognize. That’s gonna be the Uzi
– Go ahead and reach over there. – It’s gonna be the Uzi nine millimeter. Of course, the Uzi was offered
in other calibers, as well, like 41, and there’s caliber conversions for all sorts of crazy things. But, you know, the Uzi’s
a fantastic submachine gun that fires from the open bolt. – And I think everything up to this point, well, everything up to this point… – Yeah, everything is fired from the open bolt up to this point. That was really one of
the definitive moments of the SMG evolution, was
going from open to closed bolt. While there were closed bolt
submachine guns early on, they never caught on until a really nice one was made.
– Right. – Not the rising. – No, that thing’s kind of poop. – Yeah, so anyways, the Uzi’s very iconic, it’s very controllable,
for years and years, this was the benchmark
of what an SMG should be. Even the United States
secret service used them to protect the president.
– They did. – Ronald Regan was… – There’s that famous, you know, photo of the secret service
agent extending the stock from under his jacket.
– Right. When Ronald Reagan was
shot, the agent opened a Samsonite briefcase and
pulled out one of these. And then of course, you’ve
got your folding stock that deploys very easily and very quickly. But, you can also fire it one
handed and very controllably. Now, the Uzi also made
use of a check innovation called a telescoping bolt,
and to demonstrate that, can you hold up the MP40, Patrick? – I surely can. – The MP40 does not
have a telescoping bolt. Now, a telescoping bolt
means that a certain portion of the bolt overlaps with the barrel. And if you wanna show
’em the size difference, this is the difference
between a telescoping bolt and not having a telescoping bolt. You’re really puttin’ a
lot of length on the table by having a bolt that doesn’t wrap around at least a portion of the barrel, so. – Right. – This is when SMGs started
getting really, really compact is when the advent of
the telescoping bolt came with the CZ submachine guns
in the late ’40s, early ’50s. – But, even this. – Yeah, that gun’s kind of an enigma. – It really is.
– It doesn’t really have a true telescoping bolt ’cause it doesn’t wrap, but
it does have a large portion of the bolt that kind of goes on top of the, you know.
– Well, it’s kind of a… – Yeah. But the size difference
between this and an MP40 or a Thompson is great. Very noticeable and this
is easy to keep on target ’cause the cyclic rate’s is very low, and it’s a joy to shoot. – It is, and I believe that
the Israelis start new shooters out on the Uzis.
– That’s what I’ve always heard, as well, yeah. – I’ve heard that, I don’t know if that, that to be accurate. – Still true or not. It’s also got a bunch of
different safety features, for example, you didn’t
rack the bolt all the way, so it got caught in the
ratcheting top cover. It’s also got a grip safety like a 1911. And a regular manual safety,
so it’s a very safe firearm. – Yeah, you can hear that
ratcheting right there. – You can hear the
ratcheting mechanism there, which is cool. You know, we’d do a video review on the Uzi if you guys
asked, but there’s so much video of this gun that it’s… – Yeah.
– We wouldn’t. – I mean, if you guys wanna see it, I’ll gladly go out and shoot it. – We’ll call… – Call our friends over
at Ventura Munitions and ask ’em for some nine. – Hey, we need some Uzi ammo, and I’m sure Ventura would send us all
kinds of Uzi ammo, so. – Oh, yeah. You know, check them out
if you’re in need of ammo. – Yeah, they would definitely hook us up as they have been doing, so. That’s cool, anyways, that’s enough lip service to the Uzi, great gun. – Sure. – Common rental gun in
ranges in the United States. – Yeah, it’s just tough to kill ’em. – Yeah. They run, parts are cheap, too. So, if you’re in the market for a sub gun, parts are very available,
parts kits are cheap, you can build a semi auto
for very inexpensively. Or you can buy a semi auto
for about eight, $900, so. – I’m gonna leave that extended. – Extended. Next one is what many, myself included, consider the king of SMGs. Now, that is the AK MP5. The MP5 was truly revolutionary. It was the product of
a development project known as project 64, making
last year the 50th anniversary of the MP5. It sacrificed some length
to have a non-telescoping closed bolt that functions
via roller glide bowl back, which means incredible accuracy. And if there’s one gun
that’s generally synonymous with the good guys these
days in law enforcement and some, you know, military. – It’s this gun right here. – Yeah. The protection details, that’s the MP5. – And I think it’s going
away in terms, you know, more in favor of a Caribbean arrangement. But, you know, up until about
maybe five, six years ago, this was the good guy gun, period. – Yeah, even today,
people say things like, well, I’d rather have an SBR, and I say, yeah, I would generally
rather have an SBR, but the thing is a
suppressed two two three SBR. I mean…
– It’s louder than this is. – It’s loud, it’s very loud, and… – We’ve shot this side by
side with a suppressed 22 and it’s been roughly the same… – It’s about the same. – You know.
– But, with this, you can throw a 158 grains subsonic. Now, subsonic two two three, first of all, won’t cycle your AR 15, generally. – No. – And it’s also gonna be
very, very low bullet weight. – It’s essentially, you know,
a 22 long rifle kinda thing. – It is a 22 long rifle with
a better, you know, slightly better ballistics, but.
– Right. – With a suppressed SMG,
which is where they still kind of have some relevance,
a lot of people say they’re obsolete, I partially agree, but suppressed, especially a 45 SMG, they really shine. Now let’s get on to the honorable mentions because they’re two really cool guns. This is actually an MK760, which is a copy of the Smith and Wesson
76, which is a copy of the Swedish K slash
also known as the M45. The Swedes did a really good job designing the Swedish K submachine
gun, aka the M45 Gustav, and we bought a bunch of them for Vietnam. Now, when the Swedes
said, we don’t like you doing what you’re doing in Vietnam, we’re not gonna sell any
to you, we said, okay. So, Smith and Wesson designed the 76. Now, they were popular because when you come out of the water,
since they are open bolt and they’re very well ventilated, water drains out of ’em in, I mean, I wanna say about a second or so. – It’s not even, yeah,
it’s very, very quick. – I know that, I even
had a reader contact me who worked for something like
the coast guard in New York, and he said they still use these around New York city harbor and stuff. – Really? – Because they’re not
susceptible to water, yeah. Or, not as susceptible to water. Which is very cool,
they’re very good guns, they’re stout and well made, especially the Swedish variants. The MK760 sometimes run into a few issues. Smith and Wesson 76 is made
a little better, but still. Very cool guns. – Yeah, still a little bit
rattly, but you know, I mean… Kinda is what it is. – Yeah, they slipped a bunch of these in before the 86 cut off, that’s why you see so many MK760s. Irvine MK760s. So, very cool gun. Last one, the gun that made the ’80s roar. That’s gonna be the MAC 10. Now, this MAC 10’s been heavily modified. This has got a lage slow fire upper and an a sidefolder on it. But, in stock configuration,
they’re just a barrel of fun because they fire so quickly that you can almost empty an entire magazine before the first shell casing hits the ground. – Yeah, I mean, it’s
almost comically fast. – Yeah, and an M11 A1, a 380 version, is a very small gun that you can fit, you can almost concealed carry, not that I would. Well actually, for our
concealed carry video, most guys said, if you
don’t carry a full size, full capacity magazine gun,
you’re not very well protected. Well, I’d say if you don’t carry a MAC 10 or a MAC 11, I mean, how
protected can you say you are? – I don’t know.
– Yeah. – I think one of our viewers commented that he would like to carry
the USS Nimitz, but… – Yeah. – It was a little less manageable. – Of course, I’m kidding,
and I think that’s great. But the MACs are great. There’s also a really
cool book about these called The MacMan about Gordon Ingram designing these and whatnot, and they’re just a lot of fun to shoot. They’re hard to control and they take a learning curve to master. – Yes, they do. Well, the slow fire
operates fairly, you know, easy, it’s easier to shoot. – This was Davy’s first
submachine gun here, so I did everything I could
to make it competitive, and, like sub gun matches
and things like that. And being an open bolt gun
is still hard to compete with the MP5, guys, but
I’ve seen guys do it. Richard Lage, who owns the
company that manufactures this upper, basically kicks
everyone’s ass with one. – Yeah.
– So. Keep on keepin’ on what you’re doin’. – No kiddin’. – And… – And then one really
cool thing about that is there are caliber conversions for them, there are replacement uppers. Then you can go so far as to make it a, well, I guess it would be
an assault rifle, then. – Yeah, they’re also the cheapest. Yeah, there is a two two three upper. They’re also the cheapest
SMG on the market, which is cool so if you’re
interested in a first SMG or a first machine gun,
maybe look at a MAC 10 or 11. – Yes.
– It’s easy to say like, oh well, it’s a MAC 10, that’s kind of a garbage gangster gun, but… – No, I mean, I think that
they’re good guns for, you know, the price point that they’re at on the marketplace. I think they’re, you know,
five to $6,000 at this point. – All those ’80s drug runners
couldn’t have been wrong. Except legally, of course. But, anyways, guys, this is a
whole table full of fun here. We really enjoy these guns. All of them are military weapons. But, they are civilian
legal, which is cool, so. On that, I think we’ll
lead out of the video. We’d like to thank,
again, Ventura Munitions for providing ammo for our
upcoming videos on this stuff. Also, Grizzly Targets, sending
us some AR 500 to shoot, so we’ll be able to kinda show the knock and the pings. – It’ll be kinda nice
to go ahead and shoot something other than dirt clods. – Yeah, and you know,
whatever we throw out there. But, anyways guys, we
appreciate you watching TFBTV. Also, if you’d hit that subscribe button, it would really help us out. I know it’d make Patrick happy. – Yeah, always. – Yeah, anyways, thanks again. – If you don’t subscribe, I’m
gonna bill ya five dollars. – Yeah, I don’t know about that. But, anyways, thanks guys, and
we hope to see you next time.

100 thoughts on “Top 5 Submachine Guns

  1. You guy's need to learn to not talk over each other, maybe script this a little more…. Otherwise good demo overall!

  2. @1:46 "If i came around the corner & saw a bunch of bad guys".. I see we have fake ass tv watching tough guys with guns doing a video. I definitely gotta get that mac 10, & i like the ak47 too..

  3. No wonder Patrick left TFB TV. That other dude is just flat out annoying with his know it all attitude

  4. Hmmm… I don't know… I'm starting to think Alex might be a bit of a Thompson fanboy. I like the Thompson but I think the MP-40 is way more soldier friendly and the MP-40 is way sexier than the Thompson. The Thompson is very rugged and kinda brick-y. The MP-40 is smooth and sleek.

  5. The key to the Thompson is aim at his big toe and pull the trigger and you'll paint him all the way up to his ears!

  6. The Sten mk 3 is beautiful and ergonomic with the handle on the left side (very sexy) – lol. The l2a3 has a very good rep.

  7. Do you guys think you could try talking over each other a little more?  It doesn't detract from watchability at all.

  8. MPL was the reason people decided to make the MP5. Not because it was effective, but because NATO needed sonething good, not mediocre.

  9. Its good that no SOB said "What about the AK74U, thats a good SMG!" No. Its a amazing weapon, justt not an SMG. Its a Pistol. But not practical as a pistol, so its used like an SMG. Reminder, it is not.

  10. As much as I feel the love the Walther Mp and how it was tragically left behind with history; I feel its about on par with the Swedish K.

  11. Thompson doesn't deserve to be here. It's iconic, and it's powerful at close range, but that's all of its merits. I'd take an MPX or MX4/CX4 over the Thompson any day.

  12. Hey!

    I saw you wrote M/45 with an upper case m. This is not nitpicking, just some Swedish arms nomenclature trivia.

    Upper case M:s indicate weapons in the service of the navy, whereas lower case m:s indicate army. Hence Kulsprutepistol m/45, or k-pist m/45 (literally bullet-spraying pistol) is written with a lower case m.

    I'm not sure about our airforce though, as I'm more an army/navy kind of guy.

  13. Great, inexpensive air rifle>>> Able to keep the varmints out of the garden once the scope was dialed in. Very accurate at moderate distances which is just what I needed. Would recommend it to anyone who is plagued by chipmunks, squirrels or rabbits. Have read other reviews where they say the scope is terrible but I found it to be quite adequate and easy to adjust. Good value

  14. TOP 12
    1. Bergmann MP 18

    2. Thompson M1A1

    3. Vollmer MP 40
    4. STEN

    5. Shpagin PPSh-41
    6. Owen Machine Carbine
    7. Johnsson m/45 (Swedish K)
    8. Gal Uzi
    9. Sterling L2A3

    10. Walther MPL

    11. Ingram MAC-10
    12. HK MP5

  15. Hi guys! Glad you mentioned the S&W M76, however it IS NOT a copy of the Swedish K. How do I know this? My father designed the M76 submachine gun in the 1960's and it is included in his book. I would be happy to email you the text from the book if you are interested.

  16. Best sub-machine pistol ever built, 1921 Thompson with pistol front grip and 100 round snail drum. Very good for home defense.

  17. I am old enough to be these c*nts grandad.
    So much DRIBBLE….I watched 15 seconds of these BOYS bullsh*t…these idiots actually argue about if one gun is 'more iconic' than another. And the little piece of add-lib BS in the description thing…'SMG be coming obsolete…" smg's and guns in general, of which 99% of those who speak about them, have never seen/touched one…and get their reality from TV which is NOT REAL…will never be obsolete as long as people need killing.

    Guns…smg's…are 'fun' to shoot?..well little squirrel man, guns have 1 purpose and one only. To kill many enemies (like the effing dude with the hitler pic beloiw in the comments..see ya in portland…..des whatever) as quickly as possible.

    'Merica has fallen in slow motion, its OVER FOLKS, lil' trump the tyrant is trying to provoke a race war as the instructions of his Master, PUTIN, and is breeding hate and distrust in a Country that stood only as loong as we were the UNITED states of america…It has fallen because a HOUSE DIVIDED WILL NEVER STAND. Trump is the REAL ENEMY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE

  18. Late n the video game explaining this weapons and your video is very lame, practice with each other, stop talking over one another, other than that you picked the best smg's

  19. Despite de development of the "ratchet top cover" version of the UZI, the MPL is still the safest open bolt (maybe the Beretta model 12 s II, 25 years later, became the safest, but it is hard to find anything about it).
    MP5 is a scaled down rifle, too unfair to compare it.

  20. The only other gun I've seen that doesn't get ruined in water is the AA 12 but that's a giant low recoil full auto shotgun

  21. Iv8888 mentioned in a video that he had worked for a company that made mac 10s or mac 10 parts and you could buy one from them in full auto for less than $200 at the time (pre 86). If you know what I'm referring to please tell us which video and correct any errors in my recollection.

    That's probably why they were favored by criminals, small and cheap. Iv8888 also did a video about top 5 guns in evidence lockers which were all old, cheap guns.

  22. The Uzi is so overrated. Iconic in movies, yes. Overrated? Yes. Still very good though. Also, the Swedish K can be fired IN water.

  23. the guy on the right was kinda aggressively dominating the conversation, it made me cringe a little bit, he sounded a little nervous or mad or something.
    the left dude kept getting interrupted and he couldn't really get a word in unless he like spoke really fast and loud.

  24. I think the PPD 40, PPSH 41 and PPS 43 are a lot more important than the Thompson. When talking relative to the war at least.

  25. Maybe its me, but personally it seems like the MP-40 has a cooler, more modern look it while the Thompson looks more old fashion.

  26. No Vigneron MKII? It might not be the most powerful SMG but it's the funniest in my opinion, looks a bit like a MP40 but a lot lighter & more fun to shoot.

  27. I’d like to see you guys take the uzi to the range and run a hot and a more mild ammo and see what performs better
    Everyone says that uzis like the hot ammo the Israelis used but I’ve never seen comparisons

  28. I know it's an older video but if you really want people to watch your whole video, dont put all the firearms on the table and a list behind you on the board. I got to the 12 second mark and stopped the video because I already saw what your picks were

  29. I'd take the Thompson because it's the finest piece of quality milled machinery there. The rest were made to be cheap and expendable.

  30. I quickly learned to appreciate and adore the qualities of the MPL…… Black Ops at least (cough*loser)

  31. The thing that sucks about the Thompson is that it is hard to time the trigger mechanism to tap out a nice three round burst…that is much easier to do with the Uzi, the MP40 or the Karl Gustav.

  32. One thing that has to be given to the Thompson is the fact it's a pre-World War 1 design that managed to stay relevant through World War II.

    Yes it was heavy yes it was not exactly easy to shoot and it is a little bit overrated but at the same time it was powerful and they were practically indestructible which is why the weapon became a legend.

    There were a couple of other weapons that could have been bit lighter than they were but the soldiers loved them because they knew they would not be let down by these weapons which include the m1 Garand rifle and the Browning automatic rifle

  33. do a video on the MP5!, only an idiot would watch a video on an UZI or a Thompson (even though!… the UZI is izhmash, they are hunks of warfare junk!, gangster gun and shit)

  34. Can't say that I agree with some of your reasoning. It sounds like amateurish fandom at times. This is particularly true of the "praise" of the excessive firing rate of the Thompson. There were many versions of the Thompson SMG. The initial production were so complicated that they had to be highly modified for military use. The offset stock is the reason that MOST of the rounds fired from a Thompson will be aimed at the moon. It's lack of accuracy is legendary. The MP-38/40/40II models were by far the best Germans subguns, but the Soviet PPSH was vastly better and is considered the finest small arm of that war.. The PPSH was the most effective Machine Pistol of that era.

    The Uzi was a derivative of the Czech ZB23. Uzi' used to be famous for their bottle openers. This resulted from soldiers using the magazines to open Coke bottles thus damaging the retaining lips and caused a number of deaths. The full size Uzi is an extremely accurate gun to shoot. But more importantly, it's among the least expensive to manufacture.

    Other excellent machine pistols were the Sten and the Lanchester. None of the bottom magazine guns are effective in trench warfare of even if a soldier is on the ground. They must be turned sideways to keep the magazine from hitting the ground. Both were effectively suppressed in 9mm. Most importantly, the STEN was one of the cheapest guns ever made.

    The S&W is part of the new era of machine gun design where cost of production was paramount. A tube or a stamping is far less expensive than a fully machined gun. This was the genius in the Uzi, the PPSH, the S&W, The Sten, the Madsen, and in the Full sized company machine gun the MG42 (modern MG3, MG74).

    Perhaps the WORST of the machine pistols shown and preferred by you is the HK MP5. It's overpriced and extremely high maintenance. It's rapidly falling out of favor. You didn't mention the Czech EVO3, a sub gun preferred by many criminal gangs in Europe, particularly in the UK where citizens are disarmed, the criminals have the Evo3. That gun would put most of your picks to shame.

    Another statement that you made that is untrue is that machine pistols are falling out of use. The USA is RIGHT NOW accepting bids to produce a new smg to replace all it's current inventory. They are following the procedure that was used in the selection of the Sig Inc. P320 as the new side arm. There seem to be more than a dozen companies competing for this contract.

    You failed to mention the BEST of the US WWII smg. That was the the M3. The M3 was available in either 9mm or .45 ACP and needed to have only the barrel and magazine changed to convert calibers. Like the Sten and other easy to make guns (like the Uzi) a bicycle shop could easily fabricate the majority of parts leaving fully equipped machine shops to produce the small number of highly machined parts. This was the impetus of the P-38 replacing the P08, the MG42 replacing the MG34, and dozens of other instances where production efficiency allowed a nation to procured more arms within it's budget. That made guns as the Sten, PPSH, AK47 tremendous assets far beyond the appreciation of individuals who don't value the REAL important values inherent in logistics.

    Finally, you also did not mention and don't seem to appreciate what effective rate of fire is. The Thompson and Ingram were very excessive and as a result lost much of their potential effectiveness. During WWII the MG42 (today it's called the MG3, MG74 etc.) had the highest effective rate of fire of all machine guns. With the Heavy bolt the effective rate of fire (which is greater with a lower cyclic rate) was far higher even than some modern guns in service. The original AR-15 full auto had a MUCH lower cyclic rate than the M16 did, and as a result is a better more effective gun, although nearly none exist today. The military wants a cyclic rate of about 650 rpm.

  35. You two sound like level headed, educated men talking about something you have passion in. That may sound like an obvious statement, yet those traits are rare these days.

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