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On Repro Firearms, Cock-On-Close Vs. Open. (TFBTV Weekly Ep.1)


– Hey guys, it’s Alex C. with TFBTV. Welcome to a new series we’re starting called TFBTV Weekly where we’re basically going
to keep you guys up to date on firearms news and also
answer any viewer questions or realistically show
anything you guys want to see. For example, if you wanted to see how a general purpose machine gun works, or if you wanted to understand
how a Mauser 98 works or something like that,
this is where we do that. We’re going to rely on you guys, however, to ask questions in the
comment field below. We’ll respond to, realistically,
as many as we can, or whichever one gets the most likes. That’s really what this
is gonna be all about. While I’m not qualified to answer every firearms related
question you guys have, I’m sure that we at least
have one staff member at TFB who can help, so it might be cool to see
some fresh faces here as well. Anyways, the topic of
this week, first of all, is going to address firearm reproductions. Most videos I do, you guys– Well, you guys realistically know that I really like old firearms. I prefer them to new firearms. Most people say, “Well,
they should reproduce that,” especially when it comes to unique things like a broom-handle Mauser. There’s a lot of reasons
companies can’t do this. If you look at pictures of the old factory where they were making broom-handles, it took a legitimate
factory full of people and 100+ employees focusing
on this to make it. It would cost a lot of money
for a company that was small to introduce a pistol
that has no chance at all of selling to law
enforcement or the military. It wouldn’t sell that well. The economics aren’t there, and if a small shop did tool up, like relatively recently, a company tooled up to
make .45 ACP Lugers, it’d be really expensive just like the modern FG42’s
by SMG Guns in Decatur, Texas. They’re very expensive because it’s a small shop
producing a limited amount. Realistically, there’s not
that many people interested. I know you guys might be because you’re die-hard
firearms enthusiasts for the most part, but your average hunter and what-not’s not going to buy a broom-handle Mauser because they’re impractical
relative to today’s pistols. When a company does do it,
they generally cost a lot like the SMG Guns’s FG42’s are $5.000. People complain about the hight price. That’s a small shop with,
maybe, a dozen employees working really hard to
bring this to market. It’s a very complex gun to make, and a real one cost about
$300,000 in an auction house. So, what it seems like is people want an accurate reproduction of a gun that’s not going to sell a lot, and they want it for free? I would like that too, but
that’s just unfortunatly not the way the situation works. Anyways, that’s that. That’s basically why they don’t reproduce old firearms that are obsolete, is it’s not cost effective,
and they’d be expensive, and probably wouldn’t be profitable. Anyways, the next section
we’re gonna take a look at some bolt-action rifles, and I’m going to show you the difference between a cock-on open and
a cock-on closed design because I’ve actually
had a lot of people ask, “What’s the difference?” If you’re not really into
old military bolt actions, or if you’re just familiar
with hunting rifles, you probably only have
messed with cock-on open. So, let’s have a look. What we have here is a Ugoslovian Mauser. This is a 24/47, basically a Mauser 98. The 98 action is copied, or
elements of the 98 action are copied in pretty much
every bolt-action rifle in production today,
and it is cock-on open. This right here is the cocking piece. As I rotate the bullet, you’ll
notice this canning surface allows for good positive extraction and draws the cocking piece to the rear. which allows you to cycle the bolt. Now, when you lock it back down, the cocking piece stays closed
because it’s already cocked. It’s basically held to the rear
when then bolt handle is up, and you’re not fighting
any sort of spring tension when you go to cock it. There you go. There’s a basic cock-on open system. Cock-on open, in theory, allows for better leverage
when cocking the bolt. That’s what people say. So that’s there. I guess there’s a reason it’s
on every hunting rifle today is a cock-on open design. That is basically the foundation of a cock-on open rifle. Now, let’s have a look
at a cock-on close rifle. Here, we’ve got a 1917 dated
short-magazine Lee Enfield. Lee Enfield’s definitely
going to be, probably, the most prominent cock-on
closed design you’ll encounter next to maybe the Swedish 96 Mauser. Now, the way this works
is when you open the bolt, you’ll notice the cocking piece doesn’t quite jump all the way back. It jumps a little bit,
but not all the way. When I lower the bolt– Sorry, when I close the bolt, it’s not cocked. It’s because you have to draw
it all the way to the rear, and you can hear the cocking piece actually clicking over the sear. There’s resistance when
you go to close it, and that’s because the sear is holding the cocking piece to the rear. It isn’t until you fire it that you’ll have to cycle it again. Now, one thing to note
about cock-on closed design is there’s a lot of spring pressure holding the cocking piece to the rear, so when you open the bolt, it’ll fly to the rear. Not with quite enough force
to seriously injure you, but it probably could bruise
your face a little bit. In theory, the advantage of
a cock-on closing system is– Well first, it’s simpler to produce. Second of all, it’s going to be faster. I personally can shoot a
cock-on open rifle quickly. If you watch my MAS 36 run and gun, or the Enfield– Sorry, the Mauser vs.
Mosin challenge we did, to me, it doesn’t seem to
really matter that much. Why I can cycle a Lee Enfield faster is realistically the
placement of the bolt. I can place my thumb and forefinger on the bolt handle and my
middle finger on the trigger, and it’s easy to get back onto the trigger after you cycle it. I’ve always thought that
the short bolt throw coupled with the bolt/handle position is what makes the Enfield fast. While cock-on closed
does help a little bit, I think that– Well, personally I think
that the strong point of cock-on closed being, or the Enfield being faster, isn’t necessarily as a result
of it being cock-on closed. But that’s just me. That’s just my experiences. Anyways, let’s go back to the table. All right guys, so that
was the first episode of TFBTV Weekly. Hope you enjoyed it. Little bit kind of a softball episode. I don’t really have much to talk about because you guys haven’t
proposed any questions, obviously being how
it’s the first episode. That said, if there’s
something you’d like explained or you’d like me to show, it could be anything, like I said, how a bolt action rifle works up to how does a Sturmgewehr work, I can definitely show that on camera. You guys just have to let us know, and we will absolutely
do that for you guys. Just make sure to please
subscribe to the program, and we’ll get the episodes rolling out. Anyways, I’m Alex C. with TFBTV. Also like to thank Grizzly
Target and Ventura Munitions for making these videos possible. See you next time, guys.

100 thoughts on “On Repro Firearms, Cock-On-Close Vs. Open. (TFBTV Weekly Ep.1)

  1. love the idea! I think it'd be cool to talk about bullet twist, it can get quite confusing at times for some people. keep up the great work!

  2. I'd love to see the operations of some of Browning's famous designs and perhaps a comparison with it. For example the 1911, the Hi-Power, the Bar, and maybe even the M2HB. Of course maybe explaining how GPMGs would be great. Like the MG42, M60, or even the M240B.

    And forgive the name, a friend sabotaged my account to amuse himself, and later myself

  3. If possible, it would be interesting to see an episode about the evolution of military cartridge propellants (black powder, Balle N, Cordite, ball & flake powders, etc.), as there have been many changes in the past 120 years. Perhaps coupled with evolution of primers too. Just a thought, and you'd only have to do it once.

  4. might be a bit difficult but I would really like to see how floating recoil systems work, the only one I know off the top of my head is the AN94. Doesn't have to be next week but if you could arrange it that would be awesome.

  5. One reason that makes an Enfield fast is that it's got a 60 degree bolt through vs the longer 90 degree throws on Mauser and Mosin Nagant etc.

  6. Here my question if it does get picked.In some movies like Heat, Thief, Above The Law what is the purpose of brass checking? However in other action movies I don't see this so why do some films have characters brass checking their pistols?

  7. A PKM breakdown would be appreciated, I would like to see that spring loaded arm that pushes the round down into the chamber for the bolt to shoot it and strip it.

  8. Coming from the gaming scene, what makes a smg, assault rifle, and a sniper rifle different ? Like dose putting a scope on a rifle make it a sniper rifle, and if not what makes a sniper rifle? Or is a full auto sbr is considered an smg?

  9. Could you tell us, if a silencer will work with the M1895 Nagant?
    Just kidding but for a start, could you please show us how a AR-15 works in detail?

  10. Have you heard of any progress in the rumour of a company producing US made receivers for the Stgw.57PE57 kits that are still floating around?

  11. What are the mechanical differences between the Russian PKM and PKP Pecheneg light machine guns? 🙂 Great channel by the way 😀

  12. A couple of ideas. first the difference between the Thompson bolts for the 1928, M1a, and auto ordinance replicas. Next showing open and closed bolt subguns. also compare the various replica versus original m1 carbines. guns which use common magazines.

  13. I wanna see you guys detail some malfunctions on some guns to explain to people how they happen, how to clear them, and how to prevent.Very important for people new to operating fire arms

  14. It would not only be interesting to see how the Stg44 works, but there is also rumor from time to time, that Hugo Schmeisser (the constructor of the Stg 44) influenced the design of the AK 47 (Kalashnikov vehemently denied this). So it would be interesting to compare the two weapon systems and lets see if it is only a rumor or if there is some truth in it … 🙂

  15. Explanation of specifically roller delayed blow and how it works. In a broader sense can you explain various types of cycle methods for semi auto rifles such as direct impingement vs long stroke piston, flapper lock, etc. I understand this would be a lot to answer but if you could please hit the roller delayed that would be awesome.

  16. How do belt fed guns move rounds from one side to the next? I understand there's grooves or something that guide them but I'm really lost on that.

  17. GSG is rumored to introduce a US-made (import law reasons) MP-40 in 9mm. So there is money in repro's to an extent. Their .22 line of repros has done fairly well.

  18. You asked for it so…. I have a Remington 700 BDL in 30-06, manufactured in 1962 that belonged to my father. I would bet that the bolt has never been taken apart for cleaning. Is that something I can do? Show me how.

  19. I'd love to see how the hydraulic/pneumatic(maybe?) buffer works in an MP40. I'm curious to know why a modern firearm never borrowed the idea.

  20. I wish you guys were closer so you could make a video on my Merkel RX Helix, I expect this gun to be hard to find in the US market without shelling out yourself. One of the more interesting straight-pull modern production rifles out there.

  21. I don't have any serious suggestions, but I would love to see the FN Fiveseven get some screen time.
    Maybe strip one down because I've wondered the concealed hammer works.

  22. It would be pretty cool to see an in-depth comparison between the SVT40 and the G43. I would be pretty interested in seeing the differences and similarities between the two!

  23. Could you explain firing from an open bolt versus a closed bolt? I have always struggled with this concept as it would seem that the bolt would have to close to fire. (Also because I've never used something that fired from an open bolt.

  24. Nice series concept, I'd like see these about say 5 minutes longer though. What are your feelings on pump forward vs pump rear 12 gauge pump and is there any inherent advantages of one over the other?

  25. I agree with the interest in the Sturmgewehr.  I know that somebody made a repro in .22 blowback, and I know that there was a limited production repro from Europe.  Do you know if anyone has looked into doing a repro StG44 in 7.62X39?    Secondly, I will never be able to afford a Browning machine gun – can you take us through the operation of the short recoil system used on the varius Brownings?

  26. I really wish someone could reproduce Valmets or Galils…A Valmet is the Holy grails though, I love it…It is SUCH a sexy rifle.

  27. I know that in the ar-15 market, a lot of the parts for multiple companies are made in the same factory and marked with that specific factories' mark. However, I don't know which marks mean what. If you could do a video on where ar-15 source parts come from that would be great.

  28. How about an episode going through all the various action types in semi auto guns. Blow forward, blowback, short recoil, long recoil, roller/flapper lock, etc. lot of ground to cover, but lots of good subject matter too.

  29. Can you do a video on how exactly one goes about firing 30 rounds in half a second out of their ghost gun by utilizing .30 caliber magazine clips?

  30. how about a how the swiss k11 works not specifically just the k11 but just the straight pull bolts in general I know you kind of gave us the short explanation on a previous video but I would like to hear the full in depth of not only how it works but why the swiss thought it was superior to a normal bolt action to were they started mass production

  31. As someone new to guns, I have really enjoyed your C&R videos. Where do you normally find the C&R guns you all own? Would you say its gun shows, local shops, online shopping or a mix of all three? Since they're older firearms and a visual inspection is probably preferred would online stores not be a good place to look? I guess this is more of an overall buying guide question.

  32. "cock on open" was the best system a century ago because the ammo wasn't as reliable as today and with that particular system you can easily refire a dud round without ejecting it !

  33. How does e Selector switch work for select-fire firearms? Specifically, how do you get a 3 shot burst, full auto, and semi Auto ?

  34. Optics for Home Defense on rifles, on pistols.

    Use of lights for home defense, weapon-mounted. non weapon-mounted.

    S&W TRR8 and R8 revolvers.

    S&W M&P40 & M&P40L C.O.R.E models.

    Pistol weight vs caliber, is an ultralight, ultra-small pistol better or worse than maybe a bit larger and heavier gun in same caliber ?

  35. Would you guys be willing to conduct some tests on the dust covers of the Arisaka rifles, especially of the Type 99 that you have? I am interested in seeing a reliance test (how reliable they are with keeping the bolt clean from sand, dirt, mud, snow, etc. as they were meant for) and a noise test: to see the likelihood of actually hearing the noise produced by the dust cover when the bolt is being cycled in a combat scenario.

    I commented about this before on your Arisaka Type 99 video.

  36. Broomhandle mausers werent unique. They copied a borchhardt. Ie same basic style same action etc.
    Look up 'unique'.
    And just by the by something is either unique or it isnt. It cant be really unique or almost unique or very etc. it is or it isnt.

  37. Would you guys mind taking a few cock on open/close bolts and strip them? Maybe explain in detail how they work. I get the general idea, but it interests me a fair bit.

  38. Why was the M95 Styers receiver made of such hard steel? I had the lip on the receiver that connects to the mag shatter off. Its like its made of tool steel. I cant date my rifle either. They are common rifles but there aren't many good videos on them.

  39. The gun makers in Darre, Pakistan turn out reproductions of Mausers, Enfields, Martini Henry rifles, and C96 pistols with basically 19th century technology and sell it in a depressed economy. So, the idea that the majors can't do it because it would be too hard or too expensive is utter nonsense. Do you really think there wouldn't be a market for a Luger? Look at what people pay for triple the going rate for a high end ak47s and 1911a1.

  40. I would love to know what you feel is the best design in each category of weapon….and the reasons for your choice. For example: Rossi makes the best revolver because it's the most reliable and has the best trigger. Just a suggestion.

  41. What's the difference between tilting bolt and tilting wedge (like in Stg.44 or vzor 58 and if I'm not mistaken, also Beretta 92 and Walther P38)?

  42. Cock on closing bolts make extraction much more easier for the fragile extractor claw on bolt faces. As you said cock on closing is faster to operate, but the main reason why is forward momentum exerted on the bolt handle compresses the firing spring and puts the bolt in battery. After a long while of playing with them you get used to cock on closing and you can rack an Arisaka 38/99 faster than a turned bolt K98k.

    As far as why I think cock on opening bolt actions are prevalent today are two reasons. One you mentioned, the Mauser 98 system is the most perfected action ever devised and is widely copied for that reason. The second, its idiot proof, some gun owners get frustrated at the idea of putting more effort on a spring that really isn't hard to compress.

  43. cock on close also allows you to put all force of opening into extracting the case. cock on open you are fighting both the spring and extraction.

  44. how do you really determine the "class" of amo eg pistol, intermed, rifle? After 1900 many countries were satisfied by 6.5×50+ (but would still be fullpower by today) but by 1940 the standard was moving to 7.5+x50+ and since the late 50's early 60's 5.56×45 is a intermed standard (even though measurements with early full-power are kind of close) while 7.62×33 (carbine) and 7.62×39 are also intermed?

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