100 thoughts on “French Rifle Ammunition: 8mm Lebel and 7.5mm French

  1. What's in the Frame behind you on the left? There seems to be a Finnish flag (of the Defence Forces) on the bottom right corner.

  2. I really appreciate this video on cartridge development. Do you think you may do such a thing again in the future? I certainly would love more like this.

  3. Brass bullets, thats only 70% as dense as lead, I wonder if that effected the penetration much.
    Germans safer behind cover?

  4. Hi Ian, i was wondering can cartridge rim, neck and base be the same diameter as a bullet ? If 9×19 Parabellum or .45 acp was like that you could have more ammo in magazine.

  5. Note for anyone trying to reload 8mm Lebel: Do not try to full length size a 8mm Lebel cartridge. The chambers are oversized and will fireform the cartridge. Full sizing will overstretch the brass and drastically reduce case life (as well as require pesky trimming). Just use the neck sizer and reserve those cartridges for their specific guns.

  6. The biggest problem with the 8mm lebel isn't that it has a rim and is tapered, it has a double taper which means it would never work in a box magazine

  7. Is there some kind of Youtube award for the most civil comment section? Forgotten Weapons has seriously got to be one of the best.

  8. Weren't the Germans using a 153gr Spitzgeschoss @2900fps during the WWI and then changed for longer range ballistic reasons into a 198gr schweres Spitzgeschoss @ 2550fps during mid 1930's..? Compared to that WWI-Mauser round the Lebel was underpowered like a snail for sure.

  9. "The first to develop a smokeless powder with a burn rate usable in rifles" What does that mean? Rifle powder burns slower, correct? I feel like you glossed over some interesting, but understandably unrelated info, there.

  10. Very informative, Ian.
    Have you done or considered a similar video on the different ammunition used by the Japanese?

  11. One thing I've noticed is that some of the 7.5mm French cartridges have a groove in the base, similar to that on the 8mm Lebel Balle D and N. But since they're not going to be in tube magazines, that has no functional purpose on the 7.5mm. Was that done just out of tradition, or was that to visually distinguish between rifle and machine gun rounds?

  12. privi partisan is the greatest ammo manufacture. no one else would take the time to make so many obsolete calibers for that low cost.

  13. Any documentation on how they tied the string? Packaging that much ammunition they (include the Russians) must have had a few tricks.

  14. While you were working through the history of the rifles I was thinking that you needed to do a video on the history of the ammo. Did not disappoint. Thanks, Ian!

  15. Literally started watching this video and checked if there was 8mm Lebel on sgammo… Coincidence!? Been looking for this stuff for about 2 years <.<

  16. I guess the French actually had something in common with the Austrians back then; brown paper packages tied up with string were things that they both considered a favourite.

  17. I have run into some old 8mm Lebel ammunition and when pulled apart (primers were no longer viable), the bullet had a "step or heel" of smaller diameter where it entered the case mouth. Where, in the timeline did this type fall?

  18. I have a K11 in 7.5x55mm and a MAS 36 in 7.5x54mm. I really like 7.5×54 its fun to reload and uses the 7.62x54R crimper.

  19. You can always fire non-optimal cartridges once in any specific rifle as long as it's firing pin aligns with the percussion cap…
    With potentially excessively dramatic results too common for a darwin award XD

  20. I looked at the video name and was like 'how the hell do you make an 18.5 minute video about nothing but two rifle cartridges?'
    At the end of the video I'm still glued to the screen…
    Good job as always, Ian. You manage to make nearly forgotten trivia about obscure details intriguing and exciting. Hats off.

  21. Ian I have a question. I cannot find reloading data for 8mm Lebel in any reloading manuals. Do you have a resource or can you provide some? Also I have a 1917 Berthier rifle. It has not been converted to Ball N. Given the PPU ammo specs at Ball D is it worth it to try and have it converted? Is it possible to have it converted? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

  22. While some stupidly assembled 300 BO loads can chamber in a .223 gun, 1) this usually requires stupid levels of force AND a weak crimp. (This isn't the high tech kind of telescoping ammo, it's the shoddily made kind) 2) these are only due to cartridges loaded with projectiles not intended for the caliber, most notably 30 carbine bullets, and the 147 grainers intended for 7.62 nato. For both of those projectiles, the ogive of the bullet can mimic the shoulder of a .223/556 case but generally very over length.

    Simply using appropriate projectiles completely alleviates this potential risk. With the right projectiles, the bullet would hit the lands with the bold a good quarter inch out of battery. I always make a point of comparing any load side by side with a .223 and making sure there is no way to chamber it incorrectly.

    IMO, this is worth being careful about but the risk is largely overblown. There is far more real world risk of people putting 20 ga in a 12, and 9mm in a 40 S&W, both of which happen quite frequently. I practice having distinct magazines for 300 BO and avoid storing the guns & accessories in the same places. I also avoid mix and matching on a single range trip, at least without a little effort at keeping them separate.

    Gear that has room for human error has room for improvement. But that said, I can't help but think that the people who get this wrong would tend to get other stuff wrong too, and will hurt themselves one way or another.

  23. there was also a version of the 7.5×54 develloped specially for the FM 24/29 used in the fortifications of the Maginot line, it was the 7.5×54 mle1933 heavy ball D, for use in MAC 24/29 D, the projectile weight passed to 12.5g and the rifling rate of the barrels was changed from 270mm from 235mm

  24. speaking of tube mags, why didnt anyone make a discarding sabot spitzer for tube mags? just a little wax cap over the end at least, it'd melt in the barrel.

  25. I have a spam can and a half, of French manufactured M1 Carbine ammunition. From all I have read, it is corrosive…

  26. Great ibfo. I didn't realize there were quite so many versions of the 8×50. The 7.5 is an excellent modern cartridge. I got bit by the MAS 49/56 bug awhile back, so now i want one. I think we can have them in Kali, although the grenade launcher sights would probably have to come off. Great round though, with very usable ballistics. Great video as always. Thank you

  27. Thanks Ian for this great video.
    Don't forget to say that the 7.5×54 mle C was used to design the 7,62×51 NATO. This explains why the ballistic and other parameters of both cartridges are so close.
    7,5 is only a metric nickname considering the projectile has a 7,82mm diameter, so, actually a .308 one. it could have been called 7,62×54 ! Regards.

  28. I just shot our 1886 Lebel for the first time this weekend. It shoots better than almost any gun we have. 10 rounds, 100 yards, every single shot of mine inside the 8 ring after my dad shot his 10 and gave me a basic idea of where to aim. It shoots high, like every military gun we own.

  29. Was any 8mm lebel ever charged with cordite? Also, is there an easy way to identify a Balle-D cartridge with the solid brass bullets?

  30. Love your videos! Just an fyi though, 300 blackout will not chamber in a 556 chamber, the bullet diameter on the 300 is larger than the neck at the same point on the 556, so it stops about 5 or 6mm short of chambering. You could possibly get one to chamber if you hand-loaded a very short bullet and seated it way to low, but that is about it.

  31. This kinda clears up the questions i had in regards to the use of spitzer rounds by the french during ww1. I was under the impression that a vast majority of what was used wouldve still been round nosed because of tubular mag on the still standard (although out of production) lebel rifle, and while this wouldnt have been a problem on other weapons like the newer berthier, they wouldve still been used for logistical reasons, that and spitzer bullets being a german invention, i kind of assumed it was more of a german thing (although i am aware other nations like the british used them, the germans were just first) The addition of a sort of second rim to catch the points of spitzer rounds in tubular mags is a really neat idea.

  32. Interesting since I bought this rifle rather cheap and it is in original condition. And rather good condition also. I'll leave it alone and try to find Ball D reloading specs. Thank you.

  33. I never had an appreciation for French rifles until I started watching your videos, Ian. Thankyou for the education.

  34. It says a lot for Ian that I don't shoot, also I'm unlikely to ever shoot a WW1 French rifle, and on top of that I'm unlikely to buy ammunition for my rifle that I don't own, and YET I can happily sit and watch an 18 minute long video about French cartridges of the late 19th / early 20th century.
    Not only that, but I enjoyed it.

  35. Did France use hollow-point bullets during WW1 or is this just German disinformation:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/1.-Weltkrieg_Propaganda_Darstellung_franz%C3%B6sischer_Dum-Dum-Geschosse_ca._1916.jpg

  36. Very interesting videos, Ian . I did not know some of these details. Seriously 7.5× 54 was a excellent cartridge.

  37. Hi, guys.

    I'm a big fan of Forgotten Weapons and I'm a super-huge-mega fan of military aircraft.

    I know that the French used "Vickers" machine guns on their WW1 fighters because they didn't have a better, locked breach, machine gun for synchronizing to shoot through the propeller disk. My question is… did they use the .303 British round in their fighters or use Vickers machine guns using 8mm Lebel? Either one would make sense. If they used the .303 they could use common stocks of ammo with the Brits and, if they used 8mm, they could depend on their own ammunition stores without depending on the Brits. I'll be ding-danged if I can find a definitive answer to this question and would really like to know; one way or another.

    Thanks!

  38. hey Ian would like to see videos like this 1 for german,us,british,russian … ammo 2 but at any point please share more of your toughts about 7mm mauser

  39. How much coffee had you had or rehearsals did you do before recording this?
    Great presentation but I felt like We had snorted some thing. I need a nap.
    Thanks for the great info!!!!!!!!

  40. Isn't it true that the French were the first to develop a successful jacketed round? You gotta give them credit for developing the first smokeless round, even it was a bit funky in terms of case dimensions-John in Texas

  41. I got a mas36 but its a lil hard to find 7.5 french. I was wondering if I could have the barrel changed to another cartridge that is close and what would be the best cartridge to do that with? Please and thanxx.

  42. You are the professor, Dr. Ian I (hope that’s right.) Ha! But I’m not kidding. Here in my house you’re a god. I can listen to you vertically all day but then there would be conflict at home. Ha Ha. I salute Ian for giving us some of your knowledge. Thank you JEA Bockkom

  43. Seems to me that the French really were ahead of the rest of the world in 1886 when they developed smokeless powder but after just a couple years they were vastly behind the curve and have never really caught back up with Germany, Austria etc

  44. The reaserch was run by a guy named Gal Desaleux, who immediately started regretting ever taking part.
    (Little bilingual bonus-joke on how your first pronunciation makes it sound like "Gal Désolé", which translates as "Gal Sorry")
    Really good work as it has been on your whole channel, you always show serious research and make the presentations interesting. Every time I watch one of your videos, I end up wishing I could buy one of the firearms presented, but that would be unreasonable.

  45. Ian, you mention in this video that the French had a "problem" with using 8mm Mauser in their 7.5mm French guns (hardly surprising really) but you went on to say that there is a similar issue around today with the 300 Blackout being used in 5.56mm NATO weaponary. I don't understand how it's possible to chamber a 300 blackout (7.62mm) in a gun designed for 5.56mm.
    I can see the issue with the French using their 7.5mm guns and chambering an 8mm Mauser cartridge (it's "only" 0.5mm difference after all) but OVER 2mm difference with the 300 blackout !!! HOW ?????

  46. No wonder Ian loves French Militaria so much. Chin beards like his weren't just allowed in the old French Army, THEY WERE REQUIRED BY REGULATIONS! Seriously!

  47. Privi is great if you're into older European rifles. Theyre my one source of 7.5×55 swiss, and they're very affordable.

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