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Five Decent Rifles That Failed Commercially


– Hey guys, this is Alex
C. with FireArmBlog.com. And today we’re back with
another five guns video. The theme for today is Five Guns That Were Commercial Failures. What you here is kind of a smorgasbord of different guns that were all produced from mostly in different countries. And we kind of have a
little collaboration here. This is Patrick, by the way. You probably recognize from past videos. And for one reason or another, they’ve just never caught on. So let’s kick it off here with a really weird gun that
I didn’t know existed until I it saw on a gun broker auction. (gun charging click) This is called a Bushmaster M17S, (gun charging click)
S being semi-automatic. The M17 of course is the (gun charging click)
select fire version. You noticed when he charged it, the charging handle’s in about the worst location possible. If you’ve got big hands, or
if you’re wearing gloves, you just can’t charge the gun. Also, the side plane is only
about four or five inches. It’s hidden under this Picatinny rail. And if you have an optic on top, then you don’t have a cheek weld, you’ve got almost a chin weld going on. So you can see why this gun was a failure. It’s just not ergonomic,
it doesn’t come together. And then, just shouldering it, you can probably tell there’s
some deficiency there. – (mumbling) I mean, unfortunately I’m not real well-versed in the use of this firearm. Or did anyone adopt it? I mean was it– – No, it was a spectacular failure based on the AR-18 like
so many other guns, but in bullpup form. It was designed to actually in Australia. And then it made its way
here through Bushmaster. (Patrick laughing softly) So you know, it’s an interesting firearm. I have it in the collection because (gun charging click)
I got it for almost nothing, (gun charging click)
it’s basically just a giant rectangular piece of– – You know it makes me think of is those big cattle guards
on Australian trucks. You know what I’m talking about. – [Alex] I think I know what–
– [Patrick] Yeah, yeah, it looks like some guy just saw one of those, you know,
I know you can make a gun out of that.
(Alex laughing softly) – Yeah, well who knows,
they definitely had a pretty cool gun industry before the 1996 gun legislation. But anyways it was a commercial failure. They sold them here for cheap. They were so cheap at one time they were blowing them
out of CD and in and, you know, a long time
ago, for almost nothing. But I wouldn’t recommend anyone buy one. They don’t shoot well,
the sides are horrible. It’s no way to really just make one work. – I know and it’s really
rather heavy for what it is. – Yeah, and of course, don’t
forget the bullpup trigger. It’s just there– (gun click) Surprisingly,
it’s not bad on this gun. I don’t think. – It’s not as bad as other bullpups but– – No, it’s not good by any means. – Anyways moving on to a gun that I would consider spectacular but was
still a commercial, a failure. – It just didn’t catch on. This of course is an AR-180. The select fire version
(gun charging click) of the AR-18, this gun’s very famous, because almost all modern assault rifles have borrowed
(gun charging click) it’s operating system.
(gun charging click) It’s got a very famous tepid design that doesn’t impinge, it
just hits the carrier. This has a dual spring design though as, that’s opposed to the single guide rather than spring design
of more modern guns. It’s all stamped, it
was basically designed so other countries that would
have difficulty machining aluminum to make M16s
could make these in lieu. They were one of the first military style rifles brought to the US commercial market
which is kind of cool. They were made in three places, Costa Mesa in California, in England, it’s at the Sterling Plant, and also by Howa in Japan. They made a few of them there. They shoot well, they’re really nice. But for some reason,
they didn’t sell well. – You know, I want to say, Nathanial F. on the blog has had a
couple of these maybe. And I think he said he had
some issues with these. – He had AR-180B which was an attempt at modernizing this with a Palma lower that takes AR-15 magazines. I don’t believe he liked it. I think he got rid of it pretty quickly, but he’ll have to comment on that. But these shoot well. The Costa Mesa guns are good. The Howa guns are good. I had a Sterling that I had to get rid of just because it was not
put together very well. Generally English guns
are, you know, decent. But the stock lathes
board wouldn’t line up. It was, it’s just (mumbling)– – I hate to make a joke about you know, things in England, but you know, it holds true. – Yeah, well– – You know, especially (mumbling)– – It’s like if you need replacement wiring out of smoke for
your English made car. (Patrick chuckling) Sorry, if you’re from
England, I apologize. I am a fan of your country. But anyways yeah, it’s a
great gun, it’s a cool gun. You can actually find it
for pretty good deals. It just didn’t sell well. I think it’s because they
were priced competitively with SP1 Colt AR-15 derivatives. So why would you not get
the better gun (mumbling)? – I agree with you. I know and some people are
really fond of this gun. I believe there’s a Texas ranger, he wrote a book, you know, One Ranger, or something like that. And he seemed to just love it. I even think he went so far as to comment that he didn’t like
the AR-15 but for this. But it may be a perfectly viable gun. It just didn’t catch on here. – Well, there was one
place where they caught on that we were talking about. – Yes, yes, the IRA use these. – The IRA was quite fond of these. They actually turned them into Widowmaker. And I believe they used
them to great extent. Or at least as much as
they possibly could. ‘Cos they can’t come Sterling England, presumably they made their way over to the Irish Neu-mer-ald Isle. – You know, they used
them enough to go ahead and you know– – Cement themselves in the kits of the IRAs.
– [Patrick] Yeah. – So anyways yes, so is a
failure but it’s a good gun. It’s unlike the M-15’s
assets, it’s a great gun. But next up is the, a modern gun. A more modern gun that has
been very controversial. This of course is the Bushmaster ACR. – (sighs) Hmm … – Exactly, um-zee is all
I have to say about it. It’s, you know, we were promised a lot when Magpul designed the Masada. (gun charging clicks). Magpul did a great job designing the gun. However, Bushmaster’s done
a poor job producing it. – I remember reading the articles, a few years before this came to market. And (gun charging clicks)
I was, I saw the articles. I was like, you know,
I’m buying one of those. And then it was produced, and it just didn’t deliver (mumbling). – Absolutely, we were promised
caliber conversion kits, which it’s been years, And there’s been no
– [Patrick] There’s none. – caliber conversion kits. We’re promised, all sorts of things. Short barrels and this and that. And they failed to deliver. It’s almost like they
forgotten about the gun. – You know, I really think they have, ‘cos I don’t know, maybe the
numbers just don’t add up. Maybe it’s not quite as
profitable as something like the AR-15s, you know.
– [Alex] Correct. Also, they promised an MSRP
of something of $1,500. – Yes. – Came to the market $2,000. – [Patrick] Which (sighs).
– [Alex] That made a lot of people mad understandably. – I’m one of the sucker that bought one because I thought, yeah
I’ll pay the extra money because I want 6.8 SPC, I want 762 by 39. And if someone from Bushmaster’s
watching this video, which is unlikely, I want
my caliber conversion kits. (Patrick laughs) But that’s probably not going
to happen, it doesn’t say– – Yeah, I don’t think
it’s going to happen Alex. But I mean it’s a great gun, you know.
– [Alex] You’re right, it shoots well, some people
have problems with them. They say they’re fragile, but this one specifically,
it’s worked well. I run it suppressed sometimes. And I really don’t have much
negative to say about it other than they haven’t delivered on what they promised they would have. – Yeah, had they devoted
the resources to this gun, thought they should have, yeah, I think they could have something really fantastic.
– [Alex] It really, it really could have meant something. But really nonetheless,
it wasn’t, it isn’t. – No (laughs). – They’re for sale though. They’re for sale. You can go buy these right now. And I’m sure they’re, you know, someone might have a birthday
sitting in gun shops. (Patrick laughing softly)
You know? – I mean it’s really a shame. – It is, so that’s the ACR. Unfortunately, it never came to be. Now, next up is a gun that was just as spectacular a commercial failure. And I’m almost not a hundred percent certain why they made it. This is a Benelli MR1. (gun clicks) The MR1 uses
the same (loud clank) operating method as
(gun charging click) some of Benelli’s shotguns. It’s a 5.56 rifle or .223, some people call it the European Mini-14. One thing that, when you pick it up, you realize there’s a blatant design flaw, is you can’t reach the magazine
release with your finger by without taking your hand off the grid. – [Alex] Which these days
that’s just unacceptable to me. – Yeah, I don’t understand why they would have even done that. Maybe it has to do
(gun clicking) with the action used. – (gun charging click)
Yeah, I know they make hunting rifles that use the action. And I think basically they thought, hey we’ll add a pistol
grid, make it tactical. Sell to those, you know
(voice drowned out). – Yeah, I mean if this
gonna be produced with a nice wood stock and you know, just and it could be
a great hunting rifle. I just don’t see the point
of it being tactical. – A tactical rifle, yeah. So anyway, it failed, it
doesn’t have a threaded barrel. It takes AR-15 magazines
though which is great. It functions fine.
(gun charging click) I mean people who have them on the Internet say they liked them. They’re popular in California because they have a
featureless, featureless, you know, non-band version where they can have detachable mags. So i think it’s found a nice market there. But all in all, do you know anybody else other than me that has one of these? – No, I don’t know why
– [Alex] Yeah, thought so. – anyone other than you would buy one, to be honest.
– [Alex] (laughs) Thank you. But–
(Patrick laughs) But yeah, it is a strange gun, However, I’ll probably do a review on it just for, you know, why not? – Yeah when we pulled the side of the safe we were talking about it. We just can’t come up with
a use for this at all. – Especially in the days of $600 AR-15s. – I mean (sighs)
– [Alex] In this, this doesn’t happen then market here, at least in places where
we’re not California. And we can have you know,
pistol grips and stuff. Even then I’d rather have
a Mini-14 than this guy. – I agree with that, you
know, I mean this may be a little bit more
reliable than the Mini-14 if you’re good at dirty and muddy
– [Alex] (mumbling) I– – or something, I don’t know. But I mean it doesn’t seem to look cool. – Yeah, it doesn’t look cool. – I’m sorry Benelli. – Yeah, anyways, last but
not necessarily least, this is no particular order here, is a gun we recently did a video on. This is an Egyptian Rasheed rifle. Now the Rasheed is interesting. They only made I think 5,000 of them. It’s based on the Hakim, which is an eight millimeter gun, which is based on the
Swedish AG42 Ljungman. So it’s actually DI in it’s purest form. Not the AR-15 DI but the gas is actually just slamming into the
carrier, that’s how it works. – And I would want to touch on that. This gun was issued with one magazine. Their training doctrine
in Egypt at the time was to use tripli-colts to reload it. And when we tried doing that, to do the article, I would burn my fingers on this gas tube, just about every time I put my finger in there to push them around in the mag. – It is one of the biggest
pains in the rear end. It’s one of those things
where they took a gun in a large caliber that
worked in that large caliber and I think when they scaled it down, it didn’t work as
opposed to when they went from the AR-10 to the AR-15. It really did work well after some trial and error (mumbling)
– [Patrick] Yeah. But, there’s a reason they
ditched this really fast, they only made a couple of thousand. And then they started using the AK (snaps finger) like that, I mean it just went the way the dinosaur. There’s not that many–
– [Patrick] Thank god. – (laughs) They don’t,
this particular example kind of works most of the time. It’s got a kind of a finicky
gas regulator and a– – See the regulator right here. – Yeah, it just did, it failed,
it failed spectacularly. I think Egypt is the only
one that actually used it – [Patrick] You know,
– [Alex] in any capacity. – [Patrick] but like unlike,
– [Alex] (mumbling) – unlike a couple of these other guns, like the AR-180 and the ACR, there is a reason that this one failed. Yeah I mean–
– [Alex] Yeah. It’s got faults, it’s
got blatant design faults that just ended its adoption and use. So, I think that about
sums up our video here on Five Guns That Were
Commercial Failures. (gun clicks)
(Alex laughs) You know not to say they’re all bad, not to say they’re all good, but you know, here they are. Anyways this is Alex C.
with FirmArmBlog.com. Thanks again for helping me
out with this video Patrick. – It was my pleasure again. – If you liked our video,
hit the Subscribe button, and we’ll keep thumping
these out for you guys.

100 thoughts on “Five Decent Rifles That Failed Commercially

  1. I can see a Ranger liking the AR18. Folding stock for storage in a vehicle and it was one of the first flat top rifles with a scope rail.

  2. M17S was laughed at by the Australian Army lmao. Although the soldiers that tested it said it wasn't too bad soo there you go.

  3. Uh…You need to take the Rasheed off of there, it was a limited run military production firearm, so how could it be commercial? Also it really didn't fail it was supplanted by the MISR

  4. A bullpup rifle that has poor ergonomics, crap iron sights, rubbish trigger, is overly heavy and has parts based on the AR18 would never be adopted by a military.
    The UK – Hold my beer.

  5. Total bs the Ira did not not get guns from England but from Irish Americans the likes of Noraid

  6. The MGI HYDRA should be on the list. Mine was never able to run a full mag and the company never wanted to help.

  7. The M-17s was improved and is now on the market again. And, it is very accurate, and the trigger can easily be improved with a brass washer and strategic application of moly paste. They are a bit heavy and have poor balance, though. FYI, I had 3 of those 5 rifles, or at least closely related rifles. I had an M-17S, AR-180B, and a Hakim (big brother to the Rashid in 7.92).

  8. The video is a few years old, but brownells has an upper you can drop on an Ar-15. I’m not getting one until they make them in varying lengths and calibers.

  9. The ar-180 did not do well when tested against the AR-15 mostly because the army, the deciding agency, intentionally used magazines with bent feed lips when they tested it. The Army has done that numerous times with different weapons platforms to skew the winner from the loser. Ar-180 was a superbly better firearm than the AR platform ever was. The ar-180 is not nearly as temperamental to getting dirty as the AR platform has always shown a propensity for.

    Theochem looks as if it's a copy of the French 49. Very similar, it was originally an 8 millimeter gun. And they had them when the Germans came in and they hid them from the Germans so that the Germans would not soon have a Fairly reliable semi automatic firearm of the battlefield.

  10. It sounds like you should change the title to 4 decent rifles and one pos that failed commercially

  11. I want that ar180 so bad I can taste it….I had one in the mid 70s and I liked it allot…had to sell it when my kid was born and I've been looking for one for 20 years …if I do run across one its shot out or so expensive that I can't afford it…how much you want for the one on the table?

  12. MAGPUL Masada would have been a great rifle. Then “Bushmaster” put their name on it. It’s that simple.

  13. They are sport rifles or hunting rifles. They are not assault rifles as you called them

  14. I'm wondering if maybe a more fitting title would've been, "5 NOT so decent rifles that were commercial failures, mostly for obvious reasons"……

  15. I had an AR180 built by Sterling, it had alot of breakage of the sheetmetal parts and the proprietary magazines were rare and expensive. If it had an M16 mag release and use STANAG magazines that would have helped some I guess. Otherwise just skip it and get an AR.

  16. Lame review, no one cares about any gun you reviewed except the AR-180 which is Simon and Simon and Magnum P.I . Days!

  17. ARX-100….such a good GUN. Flopped. $800 at Academy few months ago. Then…. Stopped production.

  18. You offend me by saying "assault rifle". It doesnt become an assault weapon until someone is assaulted with it…..

  19. aaand american arrogance strikes again … "almost all modern rifles borrow its operating system" … you mean short stroke piston that was used for example in SKS … in 1944 … or if you want "assault rifle" equivalent then lets say SA Vz58 that, as its nomenclature indicates, was adopted in 1958 … MORE THAN DECADE EARLIER than AR-18 …

    huh what a surprise americans used weapon tech DECADES old in the AR-18 and you have the audacity to claim that people use system from YOUR gun that borrowed DECADES old technology from someone else …

  20. I cannot believe you said “like other assault rifles” AR does not mean Assault Rifle!!!
    AR means ArmaLite Rifle not assault rifle!!!

  21. I actually like the style of the Benelli. Why does everything have to look like a carbon copy AR? I, personally, like some variety in my guns.

  22. No apologies to the English. The sun never sets on the British empire cuz God don't trust the Brits in the dark.

  23. The Sig model 556 and the FN model FNAR are no longer produce, but are by far better guns than than the AR , the AK and the M1A.

  24. As far as the Magpul/Bushmaster Masada goes is, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Magpul was once a great company, with great new innovative ideas. Then they got away from their core mission and started "Hawking" sunglasses, shirts, belts and rubberized pencil cases with a fancy name and lost all credibility. But Bushmaster always sucked, ranking right up there with Rock River Arms and Springfield Armory quality wise. Magpul can still turn it around, but would anyone really miss Bushmaster?

  25. My Long-guns of choice are the AK-47, AR-15, M14-DMR and my Mossberg Pump. I have no reason to buy any other type of Long-gun.

  26. And yet the UK built the L85 (Known as the SA 80) which was a design, manufacturing and service disaster…yet we still have it. Current prices for one are around £3000, for a gun that the magazine falls out of, the furniture is cheap and tacky, the Gas Blowback system was not changed when the rifle was redesigned from 4.85mm to 5.56mm and the UK MOD denied there was a problem for 15 years then begged [email protected] to fix them. At least the M16 got fixed quick quickly

  27. Out of all 5 the AR-180 is just a nice collector's piece, It's like the M-4's great grandfather .

  28. The AR-180 may not have done well in the US but it did great in the UK and Ireland. This was the the gun of the IRA. It was so good that they made a song about it. As to them being priced well<,GET REAL. Every AR-180 I've seen has gone for at least $1500-up. The average price being $2000.

  29. I'm British and proud of it. Now knocking sterling is fine because they are better known for producing the SMG machine gun in 9mm which was basically issued to drivers or tank crews. But the rifle in 7.62mm called the SLR first issued early 60's blew away your M14 and your plastic 5.56 bucket of crap armalite which morphed into your AR16. I consistently hit targets over iron sights out to 300 and on a good day 500yds but give me my x5 scope and 800 to 1000yds was not a problem. Also what you hit went down and stayed down also came with a 20rd mag or you could use the 30rd bren machine gun mag on it.

  30. I go to a gunsmith for my acr I ask him to make it into 7.62×39 cal and it was worth it

  31. Any thoughts on the AR-180 B? I have one that I use just for plinking. It's great for shooting cans but I admit it's not a very well-built rifle

  32. The UK makes shit guns for the same reason china makes shit guns, nobody in their country can test em legally

  33. Bushmaster is too busy supplying the military and they had the misfortune of trying to compete with the scar.

  34. I owned the Bushmaster M17S Bullpup, intil it was stolen. As bullpups go, it was quite good. Trigger dragged a bit but could be improved. A scope was necessary, cheek weld was no problem. Accuracy was very good, as good as any entry level AR-15.
    The only trouble was the aluminum fore end tended to get hot with sustained firing. But there were fixes for that. Notice the fold-down PG on the gun in the video. Rubber or plastic pads are another fix.
    Reliability was better than an AR-15 due to a much cleaner internal design.
    All in all, a good gun that needed more development. Unfortunately at that time, the AR-15 craze hit, and Bushmaster caved.

  35. It's a tactical rifle, not an assault rifle. Don't make pro gun videos if you can't support pro gun terminology.

  36. In america guns are business just like fast food restaurants meanwhile in my country you'll get 5+ years of jail time for owning a blank gun

  37. Assault Rifle is not the correct term to use for any of these firearms Assault is an action these are just Rifles or what the manufacturer labeled them as. Not very professional. You sound like a bunch of liberals when you say assault rifle.

  38. WK180-C Canadian made AR180B marketed to get around some of our stupid laws
    https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/ProductDetail/KODWK180CONLINE_-Kodiak-Defence-WK180-C-5-56-Nato-18-6–Non-Restricted—DEPOSIT-ONLY-#?sortValue=0

  39. I think the ACR looks cool.
    Whats with the middle east, everyone is named Rahim, Rasheed, Mohammad or Hussein….

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