Articles, Blog

Do you have an illegal SBR? Measure your gun! – The Legal Brief!


Welcome back to The Legal Brief, the show
where we CRUSH the various legal myths and misinformation surrounding various areas of
the gun world. I’m your host Adam Kraut and today we’re
talking determining your barrel length and your guns overall length. Some of
you watching may be asking, why would I ever need
to determine my barrel length or overall length? As you may remember from the recent videos
on Short Barrel Rifles and Short Barrel Shotguns, barrel length and overall length are the criteria
for being classified as a SBR or SBS.. If you missed those episodes or are not sure
what I am talking about, be sure to check out the rest of The Legal Brief episodes here
on The Gun Collective. So how does one measure the length of a barrel? The ATF procedure to measure the length of
a barrel is to measure from the closed bolt or breech face to the furthest end of the
barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. But Adam, you said we were talking about measuring
the barrel, why does ATF’s procedure include measuring a permanently attached muzzle device? ATF considers a muzzle device that has been
permanently attached to be part of the barrel and therefore counts towards the length. Ways to permanently attach a muzzle device
include full fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high temperature silver solder (1100
degrees) or blind pinning and welding over the pin head. If your muzzle device is not permanently attached
using one of those methods, you must remove it in order to properly determine the length
of the barrel. After you’ve determined whether your muzzle
device is permanently attached or removed it from the barrel, the next step is to locate
some sort of dowel or rod. A wooden one works just fine. Drop the dowel or rod into the barrel until
it touches the bolt or breech face, which has to be closed. Mark the outside of the rod at the end of
the muzzle crown (if you don’t have a permanently attached muzzle device) or at the end of the
muzzle device if it is permanently attached. Remove the rod and measure from the mark to
the end of the rod. That is your barrel length, remember this
is very techincal stuff we’re talking about here. Remember, if the barrel length is less than
16 inches, it is possible that the firearm could be a short barrel rifle (if you are
building a rifle or it is already on a rifle) and if the barrel length is less than 18 inches,
it is possible the firearm could be a short barrel shotgun (again if you are building
a shotgun or it is already a shotgun). Both of these firearms would be subject to
the purview of the National Firearms Act and would require the firearm to be registered
accordingly. Keep your eyes peeled for a video on how to
fill out a Form 1 in the future. The overall length of your rifle or shotgun
may also classify it as a Short Barrel Rifle or Short Barrel Shotgun. So how is the overall length determined? Once again we turn to ATF’s procedure on
measuring overall length. The overall length of a firearm is the distance
between the muzzle of the barrel and the rearmost portion of the weapon measured on a line parallel
to the axis of the bore. Seems simple enough right? Two things to bear in mind when determining
the overall length of your rifle or shotgun. First, if the rifle has a permanently attached
muzzle device, that is part of the overall length. Second, if the rifle or shotgun has a collapsable
stock, the overall length is measured with the stock extended. The stock extended is a departure from how
some states require individuals to measure the overall length of the firearm. That said, we are discussing federal law,
but be aware of the difference if you happen to reside in one of those states. Don’t forget, if you determine the overall
length of either your shotgun or rifle to be less than 26 inches it is either a short
barrel shotgun or short barrel rifle under federal law. Once again, as with the barrel length, if
this is the case, the firearm is a NFA firearm and must be registered. If in either instance you have a gun that
falls under the NFA but is not registered you are violating federal law and the penalties
associated with violations are only about $10,000 and 10 years of imprisonment or both,
if the maximum penalties are levied against you along with the firearm being subject to
forfeiture. In other words, don’t have possession of
unregistered short barrel shotguns or short barrel rifles. Hopefully that explains the proper way to
determine your barrel length and firearms overall length. If you guys liked this episode, you know what
to do, hit that like button and share it around with your friends. Have a question you want answered on this
show, head over to The Legal Brief section on theguncollective.com. Be sure to check out my website adamkraut.com
for more information on my quest to serve YOU on the NRA Board of Directors. Don’t forget to like The Gun Collective
on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Full 30, Snap Chat and wherever else you can catch
us on social media. And as always thanks for watching!

100 thoughts on “Do you have an illegal SBR? Measure your gun! – The Legal Brief!

  1. it seems owning an unregistered sbr is worse than murder…… : /   sorry sir your going to prison for TEN YEARS with rapists and murderers for having a rifle with a barrel ONE INCH too short.

  2. Question – once I register an SBR with a certain barrel length (say 10")..can I swap out uppers with other lengths (e.g. 8" or 12") and use it while still being legal?

  3. I'm still a little confused on the definition of "a closed bolt" so does that mean in the case of an AR, "touching the firing pin" or "with a cartridge in the chamber, touching the tip of the cartridge"
    So to put this to the extreme, say I was inventing a new kind of round, one that was 10 inches long. If I put a 6 in barrel on the end would the ATF still classify that as a 16 inch barrel? Since its 16 inches to the "closed bolt"?

  4. one of the most stupid application of this law ia the Rossi ranch hand, adding wood to the stock makes it a SBR when it was originally a handgun

  5. Repeal the NFA!!! IraqVeteran8888 has a new video out with a simple hyperlink to the White House website to sign the petition. 100,000 signatures LETSSSS GOOOO!

  6. I guess an AR is just two pins away from being illegal depend what uppers you are using. Always have a pistol lower around. To cover your ass.

  7. Single shot shotgun with 18 inch barrel? No problem.
    Same shotgun with a 17.5 inch barrel?
    Deadly concealable machine shotgun, one-quarter-million dollar fine, 10 years in prison, and you are never allowed to own firearms again.
    Unless you give Uncle Sam $200 before you shave off that half-inch, then it's okay….

    Repeal the NFA!

  8. Something that otherwise resembles a pistol but is 23" or greater is no longer considered concealable and if it is also less than or equal to 26" the ATF is now calling these non-concealable pistols and pistol-shotguns simply "firearms" – Take a look at Franklin Armory's "XO-26" AR pistol, or the Black Aces Tactical 12 gauge – both are title 1 "firearms" not SBR or SBS, they have the determination letters from the ATF.

    https://www.franklinarmory.com/collections/xo-series/products/franklin-armory-xo-26-s
    And
    http://www.blackacestactical.com/home

  9. is it either or? either under 16" barrel or under 26" OAL, what if its a 10" barrel but still 26" OAL? Still considered a sbr in Commiefornia.

  10. is it either or? either under 16" barrel or under 26" OAL, what if its a 10" barrel but still 26" OAL? Still considered a sbr in Commiefornia.

  11. Just wanted to ask what is the philosophy of ATF to restrict SBR's? My question is not about the law, but the philosophy behind it. SBR or Full length Rifles, for me are the same, they are both deadly. So why restrict the other?

  12. thinks to that pesky second amendment no arm is illegal for anyone to posses why because it clearly states the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

    so first we must define arm

    What is ARMS?
    Anything that a man wears for his defense, or takes in his hands, or uses in his anger, to cast at or strike at another. Co. Litt. 1616, 162a; State v. Buzzard, 4 Ark. 18. This term, as it Is used in the constitution, relative to the right of citizens to bear arms, refers to the arms of a militiaman or soldier, and the word is used in its military sense. The arms of the infantry soldier are the musket and bayonet; of cavalry and dragoons, the sabre, holster pistols, and carbine; of the artillery, the field-piece, siegegun, and mortar, with side arms. The term, in this connection, cannot be made to cover such weapons as dirks, daggers, slung-shots, sword- canes, brass knuckles, and bowieknives. These are not military arms. English v. State, 35 Tex. 476, 14 Am. Rep. 374; Hill v. State, 53 Ga. 472; Fife v. State, 31 Ark. 455, 25 Am. Rep. 556; Andrews v. State, 3 Heisk. (Tenn.) 170, 8 Am. Rep. 8; Aymette v. State, 2 Humph. (Tenn.) 154. Arms, or coat of arms, signifies insignia, i. e., ensigns of honor, such as were formerly assumed by soldiers of fortune, and painted on their shields to distinguish them; or nearly the same as armorial bearings, (q. v.)

    Law Dictionary: What is ARMS? definition of ARMS (Black's Law Dictionary)

    so an arm is ANYTHING i use to defined my self or the weapons of a soldier

    next we need to know what is bear

    What is BEAR?
    To support, sustain, or carry; to give rise to", or to produce, something else as an incident or auxiliary.

    Law Dictionary: What is BEAR? definition of BEAR (Black's Law Dictionary)

    or

    What is BEAR ARMS?
    To carry arms as weapons and with reference to their military use, not to wear them about the person as part of the dress. Aymette v. State, 2 Humph. (Tenn.) 158. As applied to fire-arms, includes the right to load and shoot them, and to use them as such things are generally used. Hill v. State, 53 Ga. 480.

    Law Dictionary: What is BEAR ARMS? definition of BEAR ARMS (Black's Law Dictionary)

    and finally we need to know the definition of keep but unfortunately their is no legal definition for keep i wonder why maybe because it would open the door for legal concealed carry without a licence

    Definition of keep
    keptplay ˈkept; keeping
    transitive verb
    1
    a : to retain in one's possession or power kept the money we found
    b : to refrain from granting, giving, or allowing kept the news back
    c : to have in control keep your temper
    2
    : to take notice of by appropriate conduct : fulfill: such as
    a : to be faithful to keep a promise
    b : to act fittingly in relation to keep the Sabbath
    c : to conform to in habits or conduct keep late hours
    d : to stay in accord with (a beat) keep time
    3
    : preserve, maintain: such as
    a : to watch over and defend keep us from harm
    b (1) : to take care of : tend keep a garden (2) : support (3) : to maintain in a good, fitting, or orderly condition —usually used with up
    c : to continue to maintain keep watch
    d (1) : to cause to remain in a given place, situation, or condition keep him waiting (2) : to preserve (food) in an unspoiled condition
    e (1) : to have or maintain in an established position or relationship keep a mistress —often used with on kept the cook on (2) : to lodge or feed for pay keep boarders
    f (1) : to maintain a record in keep a diary (2) : to enter in a book keep records
    g : to have customarily in stock for sale
    4
    a : to restrain from departure or removal : detain keep children after school
    b : hold back, restrain keep them from going kept him back with difficulty
    c : save, reserve keep some for later kept some out for a friend
    d : to refrain from revealing keep a secret
    5
    : to confine oneself to keep my room
    6
    a : to stay or continue in keep the path keep your seat
    b : to stay or remain on or in usually against opposition : hold kept her ground
    7
    : conduct, manage keep a tearoom
    intransitive verb
    1
    a : to maintain a course, direction, or progress keep to the right
    b : to continue usually without interruption keep talking keep quiet keep on smiling
    c : to persist in a practice kept bothering them kept on smoking in spite of warnings
    2
    : stay, remain keep out of the way keep off the grass: such as
    a : to stay even —usually used with up keep up with the Joneses
    b : to remain in good condition meat will keep in the freezer
    c : to remain secret the secret would keep
    d : to call for no immediate action the matter will keep until morning
    3
    : abstain, refrain can't keep from talking
    4
    : to be in session
    school will keep through the winter — W. M. Thayer
    5
    of a quarterback : to retain possession of a football especially after faking a handoff
    6
    chiefly British : live, lodge

    so the second amendment is clear i can defend my self with any object i deem necessary for my protection not what the government deems necessary and it covers more then just guns its body armor and melee weapons also

  13. 3:40 Wrong, if it meets the barrel length requirements but is less than 26 inches overall length it's an AOW(Any other weapon), not an SBR/SBS. Try to get things right please not good to be giving out misinformation on stuff like this. Of course both of them are NFA but there are some areas that AOWs are legal and SBRs are illegal so it is an important difference. Also on a form 4 an AOW is only $5 to transfer instead of $200.

  14. IF YOU HAVE A SBR OR SBS DONT REGISTER IT! KEEP IT HIDDEN AND YOUR MOUTH SHUT! REGISTRATION LEADS TO CONFISCATION!!!

  15. Question: It is illegal to assemble a SBR until you receive your tax stamp. Wouldn't you have to assemble it to determine overall length? even if you are converting a pistol you cannot have a stock anywhere near the pistol without getting into legal issues.

  16. why some US gun law so stupid in Europe if you get firearm permit you can own SBR SBS Suppressor without another restriction for own it. it's funny when I watch US liberals talk about suppressor.

  17. I really love how the law wont give you any breaks here because if you just didn't know its not good enough!!! yay!!!! because the human thing to do is to allow for an exemption for an "i didn't know take the thing" but great you would be ruined so no real hope here except don't buy a used gun.

  18. If I have an SB Tactical Adjustable pistol brace on my ar pistol, am I able to use the extended measurement of the brace? Or can I only measure to the end of the tube?

  19. Hello so let me get this straight I have a BCM pistol with 11.5 inch barrel I measured from the end of the actual Barrel to the end of my kak super tube and it is over 28 in. So I should be able technically to get a vertical grip correct.

  20. Random question (don't know why you would do this.) But suppose you had a rifle or carbine (not an AR), and took the handle and stock off. Then you tacked it onto the bottom of another rifle so that the trigger of the lower rifle is close to the magazine well of the upper one. Technically because they are attached, the stock of the upper rifle is now the stock of the lower one as well, right? Would it be legal?

  21. Remember kids nothin is illegal till you get caught and I think it's rediculus to register anything the less our government knows the better

  22. does this apply if you have a "pistol" build?
    if i have a sb tactical brace
    do i measure the OAL when its fully extended and if its greater than 26" am i legally allowed to use a VFG and turn it into a "firearm"

  23. Karen Mallard made an illegal SBR, and she's running for congress. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koZEGFfN7N8

  24. Every video on this channel with an advertisement for a web site to purchase a product like this one will be removed by YouTube and get this channel deleted. This new policy sucks!

  25. @TGC: I hope that PCC barrels are measured the same way. The reason I ask is because a mfg's site suggested otherwise, and now I'd need to know before assembling my PCC upper. Thanks.

  26. Is it possible to have a Rifle with an Overall Length Greater than or equal to 26" but a barrel length shorter that 16"? or would it be considered a SBR??

  27. If you have an ar pistol over 26 inches could you then put a vertical grip on it sense that would technically make it just a firearm?

  28. would it be possible to make a video on how gun ownership laws in California do or do not affect CA LEOs? thanks!

  29. This is nothing but yet ANOTHER ploy from the government to extort money out of gun owners. It is a direct infringement on the 2nd amendment and is in direct violation of the constitution of the United States. This unconstitutional law has nothing to do with safety. Unless you believe that paying the extortion money of $200.00 majestically makes the payee and the gun safer. Good Grief and people buy into this shit.

  30. Why the hell does it matter, it shoots whether the barrel is 3 inches or 30 inches. Sounds like just another way for the atf and government to control us.

  31. So if you have a “firearm” (OAL over 26”) and want to turn it into an SBR or SBS but you don’t have the stock to put on the “firearm” until after ATF approval, how are you supposed to know the OAL without actually having the stock you intend to put on it thereby creating an illegal firearm? Take the barrel off, buy and put on a stock, measure, then add the length of the barrel? WTH

  32. I have a aks-74u with a Foldable stock my barrel length is 8.1 inches but my total length from stock to muzzle is 28.9 inches. Is this classified as a SBR or not ?

  33. i have a pistol and trying to make an SBR, Where it says overall length on the form 1, do i put the pistols overall length or how long it's going to be once the stock is on?

  34. What about a pistol grip shotgun with a 18 1/2 in barrel and a total length of 29 in? Legal and not NFA?

  35. can you guys do one about how to measure an ar with a brace like the sb pdw brace? I'm trying to figure out if you measure to the buffer tube or do you measure to the brace fully extended to fall into that firearm category?

  36. What if my barrel is less than 16in but my overall length is 26in? Am is a sbr that needs to be registered?

  37. Probably dumb question but if your overall length of firearm with stock all the way out is 30"
    But barrel is 10" or 15" is it a sbr or Not?

  38. What's that? Unconstitutional?

    Any law repugnant to the constitution is void at face value.

    People dont know the real law of the land.

    Hope everyone is ready for a battle.

  39. If it was built as a pistol, barrel and overall length are irrelevant? There is no problem with making the pistol extra long? Even if someone puts a 24 inch barrel on a 5.56 pistol so that 55 grain bullets are going fast enough to penetrate body armor? Thus creating a pistol that shoots armor piercing bullets, which is on the foolish end, since a pistol with a 24 in barrel is pretty tough to conceal.

  40. Lol I bought a Bushmaster AR15 carbine back in 2010, I guess it’s considered a “rifle” on paper but I put a 7.5 inch upper on it and I rock a Magpul UBR stock and a vertical foregrip I also installed a homemade auto sear. But I live in Appalachia and my local authorities couldn’t care less. 🤷‍♂️

  41. 3:07 May I request an illustration of this for a shotgun, where the shotgun's shoulder stock is shortened in length and is thus no longer intersecting a line parallel to the axis of the bore?

  42. What would an ar15 with a pistol brace , a barrel 11.5 inches long and the OAL is greater than 26" is it a sbr, aow or still a pistol

  43. So I bought a Bushmaster xm15-e2s carbine with a 16 inch barrel back in 2009 at a pawn shop in Kentucky (where I live) . I don’t remember if I checked other or rifle on the paperwork. Over the years I put a Stark Equipment hand grip , a magpul ubr collapsible stock, Eotech Holographic Sight, and a fab mojo magwell extender on it. And I just got a slidefire MOD bump stock with a bear creek arsenal 7.5 inch complete upper. Now if I switched out the upper and stock of the two I just got would that be illegal?

    I’m just asking. IDC if it is or not I live in southern Appalachia where local authorities don’t enforce silly unconstitutional ATF and NFA laws. I just would like to know out of self interest.

  44. atf had told me that a sbr is a gun with barrle less then 16 inchs .. thats it, in fack i have two guns that are 27 27 1/2 atf says they are sbr and refuses remove them from the registery, now i talk to gun dealers and they being told same thing that over all size dose not meen nothing, so is atf trying to redefine the law, well i sent in two fomal complats to our rep in ohio on this
    and i told them atf free to come and messer the two guns but is only right i will give up, and i wanted a papper stateing that any gun over 26 inchs is not a sbr, now i talk to atf lawyer, i ask them to read me the law word for word she refuse to do this, in fack she hug up the phone, if atf dose not back off and reconsiders what they doing i take them to cort and when i win i will ask for grand gurry hearring to find if there is enouf evendece to try them all on treason atf said WHAT? i said u got bud i not stoping at the law sute u breaking oath of office and dosent madder how far i get they get off me just doing it will be the first, the first to say we will not comply to laws that they make up at will, right now complants being look at and one had gun expert in gun and law, now i throw the dice and they have expert on law, atf will have huge probem as they telling every one same thing, it is about impossable to remove the flash hider , u need to be gun shop to get them off, how guns was made it makes very hard to take off, so we will see as i am ack takeing on atf, right now i do have green stamps for bouth but, what i dont get why sbr so dangous they are bad at long disstace, and if fack no one that new anything about guns would use a ar in war unless they up there game on them heavy barrle reinforce lower, i live in ohio we have open carry and beleave or not weman can go topless check the laws but i willing to bet no one knows about them, now when i get my 50 cal beyoelf ar done, that make person day, more so on trigger i will use on it 1 ib pull and no creep, hay i want it to fire one thing i dont like is how ejector is built so i ack going to replace it, i belave that there is a probem with it, in how was made, but new one will remove any concerns on this point

  45. Does anyone have any research-based answer to this?
    If I were to build an 11.5 inch AR, equipped with a SBA3 Pistol Brace, it is a pistol. It is my understanding that attaching a vertical foregrip converts the rifle to a “firearm” instead of a pistol, but this is only allowed if the OAL of the gun is 26 inches or greater. Does the Brace, full extended, count towards the length? Or is it to the end of the buffer tube?

  46. Does the classification of an AR-15 pistol change if the overall length is OVER 26 inches if it was made as a pistol and has always been a pistol?
    And how is it measured?
    Do not care about a fore grip, I am asking because a group is trying to get a ban on assault weapons on the Florida ballot in 2020 but the wording exempts handguns and includes virtually all semi-auto shotguns and rifles.
    If passed, It will require the registration of those rifles and shotguns but handguns are exempt.
    Here is a link to the petition they are trying to get on the ballot.
    https://bawnfl.org/banassaultweaponsnowpetition.pdf

  47. I know it’s an old video but I have a question anyway.. could you be in position of an SBR with a barrel of 16” but a OAL less than 26”?

    Say someone was able to make a bull pup with a 16” barrel but very short overall package of less than 26”

  48. If I have an AR “pistol” blind pinged welded muzzle device making oal over 26”, does that make it a rifle capable of installing stock ? Or is it still a “sbr” ? And barrel is less than 16”

  49. 3:02 That's incorrect. A recent letter from the ATF stated that the stock must be actually removed when measuring, and to measure from the end of the receiver.

  50. So if I have pistol which has a 10.5 inch barrel with an overall length of 19.5” and I want to add a 9” stock would it still be an sbr given that the overall length would be 28.5? What I’m not sure about is if both criteria apply as far as barrel length and overall length since and/or is implied.

  51. Hi. Question about Overall Length.
    A totally stock 1980s IMI Uzi Model B semi-automatic carbine with a factory 16-inch barrel and
    – With the collapsed factory folding stock the unit measures out to 24-1/4-inches.
    – With the extended factory folding stock the unit measures out to 31-5/8-inches.
    I have been unable to locate any current "authoritative" documentation
    confirming that the Overall Length is made with the folding stock open or closed.
    As the (folded stock) measurement is less-than 26-inches OAL it might appear that, folded, is a problem.
    Question:
    Are you aware of any "official" document that states measurement is done folded or unfolded?
    Thanks.

  52. How are you able to measure the stock fully extended if it is illegal to attach a stock before you receive the stamp? Wouldn't you need to measure from the end of the muzzle break to the end of the buffer tube? Otherwise it seems like I would end up in jail trying to build this thing.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *